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  #81  
Old 12-03-2013, 05:08 PM
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Merlin66 (Ken)
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Terry,
Once again, congratulations on the excellent results you're obtaining from the LISA.
Well done! It's great to see the continuous spectral observations for this nova.
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  #82  
Old 13-03-2013, 12:10 AM
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Weltevreden SA (Dana)
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Are there standard spectra references as 1a SNe develop?

Good work on the 2013aa spectra, Terry! Especially given the conditions. If astronomy has a noble tradition like theatre's 'The Show Must Go On,' you are the role model. Your comment re. the 03/10 image's relation to a 1a in its 19th day got me to wondering if there are standard spectral charts astronomers employ to compare the chronological and line variation intensities as a 1a progresses through its cycle for folks like you who keep your grating on their pulse, so to speak. If such exist and are available for 1a SNe, might they also be available for 2b SNe, etc? Further on the nitty-gritty aspect, is there a document or reference that details how individual line intensities vary over the cycle so we could see with our own eyes which chemical abundances are being seeded into the local ISM as they occur?
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  #83  
Old 13-03-2013, 05:26 AM
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Dana,
The book you need is Gaposchkin's "The Galactic Novae" - a bit dated now, but still full of very good info. Kaler's "Stars and their Spectra" does a good job of explaining the development of nova...
The attached image gives a quick overview of the various nova type spectra.
HTH
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  #84  
Old 16-03-2013, 08:41 PM
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Another spectra from last night. Now it fits with a 27 day type 1a SN.

Dana
I am using the Gelato database for spectra comparison. It automagically compares an uploaded spectra with their database of SN.
There is also another program called SNID
http://www.oamp.fr/people/blondin/so...nid/index.html
You need to be running linux to use it though.


http://users.northnet.com.au/~bohlse.../sn_2013aa.htm


Cheers

Terry
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Last edited by Terry B; 16-03-2013 at 08:46 PM. Reason: extra info
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  #85  
Old 16-03-2013, 11:48 PM
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madbadgalaxyman (Robert)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weltevreden SA View Post
Good work on the 2013aa spectra, Terry! Especially given the conditions. If astronomy has a noble tradition like theatre's 'The Show Must Go On,' you are the role model. Your comment re. the 03/10 image's relation to a 1a in its 19th day got me to wondering if there are standard spectral charts astronomers employ to compare the chronological and line variation intensities as a 1a progresses through its cycle
Dana,
I have little doubt that the spectral variations with time, and also the light curves, of type Ia SNe have been very intensively studied, as they are of great value in fixing the Extragalactic Distance Scale out to large distances; while Type Ia events are not exactly identical in luminosity, they are nearly so!

One place to start could be a review paper about Type Ia supernovae which was published in the year 2000 by Bruno Leibundgut;
http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/S..._contents.html

Cheers,
Robert
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  #86  
Old 17-03-2013, 08:46 AM
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Terry,
Another good result there!
Well done.
I'm glad you're continuing to monitor this SN....
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  #87  
Old 17-03-2013, 09:18 AM
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Hello, Dana, Merlin66, TerryB, and other "spectro-people",

The spectral evolution of supernovae is described in the following review paper from the Annual Review of Astronomy and Astrophysics:

http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/M...ko/frames.html

Cheers,
Robert

P.S.

Those spectra look good to me, Terry. Do you collaborate with any professional astronomers on this spectroscopy fascination of yours? From experience, I find that, because of the sheer number of possible objects of observation, and because of the very large number of research "specialties within specialties within specialties" in our grand & magisterial science, amateur astronomers are often surprised by how few professional astronomers are working on a specific problem within astronomy......so it would not surprise me if the spectral evolution of Supernovae was only understood in a "rough and ready manner".

I do agree with Dana that you are a most persistent bloke, and an inspiration to us all.
Because it is all too typical for an amateur astronomer to have plenty of non-astronomical distractions that interfere with their play/work in astronomy, it is always good to hear of success stories about people who "keep on working at it" and who thereby achieve worthwile things.

Line formation and the physics of the materials in space and their emission/absorption of radiation, are described in detail in "Atomic Astrophysics and Spectroscopy" by Anil Pradhan and Sultana Nahar (Cambridge University Press)(2011)(ISBN: 9780521825368). However, this is a "very heavy" book.....I am glad I do have a copy, but this book is more about the atomic astrophysics than the observables (spectra), and a good part of it requires a good graduate-level knowledge of physics.
However, it is not necessary to actually know all of the physics to do worthwile spectroscopy e.g. the spectral classification of stars progressed perfectly well even before people knew how the spectral lines were produced.

Doing classification of objects or spectra is possible and useful work for amateur astronomers; for instance one could learn to classify stellar or nebular spectra every bit as well as a professional astronomer does it.
Indeed, I am very envious of those people who "really know spectra", as there is always the possibility of finding a spectrum that is unusual or weird.
I do know (from personal experience) that it is possible to learn Astronomical classification schemes perfectly, because I have learnt to classify galaxies every bit as well as any professional astronomer, and I am not a PhD in astrophysics!

Last edited by madbadgalaxyman; 17-03-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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  #88  
Old 17-03-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry B View Post
There is also another program called SNID
http://www.oamp.fr/people/blondin/so...nid/index.html
You need to be running linux to use it though.
With a bit of violence to the source code and makefiles PGPLOT and SNID will build with CygWin. You need to use gfortran-4 and it still needs some changes. There was something wrong in setjmp/longjmp processing in the PGPLOT code for making PNGs but I've found the fix for that.

It even works with the sample provided.
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Last edited by mithrandir; 17-03-2013 at 04:05 PM. Reason: PNG fixed
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  #89  
Old 17-03-2013, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mithrandir View Post
With a bit of violence to the source code and makefiles PGPLOT and SNID will build with CygWin. You need to use gfortran-4 and it still needs some changes. There was something wrong in setjmp/longjmp processing in the PGPLOT code for making PNGs but I've found the fix for that.

It even works with the sample provided.
Well done.
I haven't even tried. My old linux box doesn't have a screen at present and so I haven't turned it on for some years. I did have Miriad, Karma (for radio data) and IRAF running on it. Maybe I need to try again.
Terry
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  #90  
Old 18-03-2013, 11:43 AM
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SN 2013aa continues its slow fade. Last night at March 17.69 UT, I made it visual mag 12.9.

Cheers
Andrew Pearce
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  #91  
Old 21-03-2013, 09:36 AM
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Weltevreden SA (Dana)
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Robert, thanks for the Bruno Leibundgut referral

Hi everybody, I just got back from my dark-moon sojourn at Weltevreden Farm here in S Africa. The nearest Internet access is 80 kms away and that place closes at 5:00 in the afternoon and noon on Saturdays. It's nice to hear from somebody besides 300 sheep and a couple of dogs. Robert, I downloaded the Leibendgut paper; thanks much for this & your other referrals. May I recommend to everybody NGC 3603 in Carina? It is practically its own “Guinness Book of Astral Records”—largest HII region associated with a massive cluster, over 2000 solar masses of O and B stars alone, 100 times the ionizing power of the Trapezium, yet a high proportion of sub-solar mass stars that have managed to form in a cloud collapse whose progenitor was 8 times the mass of S Doradus. Yet to look at it visually, it’s about as unexotic as you can find—a pinch of glitter inside a circle less than 60 arcsec dia. I can pick out only about 10 points inside that circle—all 100+ solar-mass O stars, to judge from the scads of info in an literature search. I came across it by accident while reading papers devoted to the cometary appearance of the nearby N3576 nebular complex. Frankly, I thought, “3603? So what?” till I read the arXiv and IOP papers. It has the most exotic C-M plot I've ever seen (attached). Don't you just l-o-v-e it when something you never saw before turns out to be such a Really Big Deal?

=Dana in SA
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