Go Back   IceInSpace > Beginners Start Here > Beginners Astrophotography
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #61  
Old 01-09-2012, 08:30 AM
silv's Avatar
silv (Annette)
Registered User

silv is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany 54°N
Posts: 1,110
Andromeda through this Skywatcher 102/500mm
- without anything in the imaging path - no filters like fringe killer or sky glow. for 198 eruro.

M42
with sky glow and fringe killer through this Skywatcher Startravel 80/400 . for 122 euro.

Another M42 with unknown filter, possibly fringe killer, through the SW ST 80/400.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 01-09-2012, 11:07 AM
irwjager's Avatar
irwjager (Ivo)
Registered User

irwjager is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 532
Annette,

As Bojan correctly suggested, your question cannot be answered and your dilemma cannot be solved with simple comparison images.

The continuation of this thread is doing a disservice to Newbies with the same question - any conclusion anyone would draw from any comparison would be wrong and false.

As pointed out, an achromat can attain the quality of an apo with filters and you can easily find apos with worse optics than a good achromat. Age has nothing to do with it and the prevalence of the chromatic aberration effect of an achro varies depending on the subject, seeing, exposure time and processing and a host of other variables.

The best I can do for you is simulate the optics of a perfect virtual apochromat and then show you the effects of an achromat with the exact same specification on the same artifical point lights under laboratory conditions.

In the first image, you will see 4 equally sized point lights, diffracted by the aperture of an 80mm F5 scope. I purposefully chose big fat stars, as the effect of an achro is the most pronounced on these. The stars are pure white (e.g. contains the same energy in all wavelengths) to demonstrate the effect the best.

With perfect focus on the green channel, I chose a mild inability to focus the redder and bluer wavelengths, resulting in a mild chromatic aberration.

As you can see in the 2nd image, the stars have a purplish quality to them and if you push the saturation and stretch a bit more (as you would do during any sort of normal processing), you'll notice a purple halo forming.

This is the only difference between an achro and an apo; the achro is less able to bring all wavelengths to focus at the same time. What you're seeing is the blue and red wavelengths slightly out of focus, with the green wavelengths perfectly in focus (I could have chosen a different wavelength). The apo is better in this area (but not perfect!). And this attribute is what you are paying for, nothing more.

How the above will manifest itself exactly in your images, will depend on a myriad of different factors too numerous to list. But, as already pointed out, because you can chose which wavelength you wish to bring to focus and filter out all other wavelengths, you can easily attain better than apo-quality with an achro by using color filters if you want.

Please end this thread, as, again, the comparisons you ask for will not answer any of your questions or reveal a universal truth about apo vs achro refractors.

Cheers,
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (apo.jpg)
3.5 KB27 views
Click for full-size image (achro.jpg)
4.1 KB28 views
Click for full-size image (achro_stretch.jpg)
4.4 KB26 views
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:49 PM
silv's Avatar
silv (Annette)
Registered User

silv is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany 54°N
Posts: 1,110
Thank you Ivo for your kind contribution and good wishes.

I did find the help I needed in the linked images from Rolls' link and from those in my last post.

I am very impressed by those pics and feel a really big relief .

Some people here did understand the kind of help I needed. Some of these people then helped out in a helpful way or offered to help. Helpful according to the help I needed.

Some other people could not understand and kept telling me what I should want to know.

I acknowledge that they were meaning well.

They can go and look at Roll's link.
Go and look at the Andromeda in my link.
Look at cometcatcher's nebula through a 20 year old lens.

Then they might understand why those images helped to solve my problem.

In case a newbie is interested in solar system imaging he has found some answers in Shiraz' kind and helpful contribution.
Go and have a look at those images, too.

And if Poitr should still dare to contribute with his kind offer, then those images will be helpful, too. And very much appreciated!

However, I could understand if nobody else wants to chip in, anymore.

They'd be risking to look stupid in front of those other people who have verbosely defined that those example images of nebula and planets are not helpful, anyway. And it's rather silly of me to ask for them, too.
"Don't answer silly questions or you look silly, too!"

***

Go, have a look at those links, Ivo. Can you understand why they are truly helpful? If not then that's okay. But you surely are open minded enough to allow somebody else to find answers in them.

***

I invite everybody who wants to tackle the problem theoretically to go and open their own thread.

- and thank you for not continuing to write off-topic in mine.

This one is meant for Example Images.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:53 PM
silv's Avatar
silv (Annette)
Registered User

silv is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany 54°N
Posts: 1,110
hmm.

maybe it is a good idea to open a second thread.

this practical approach to the subject is of interest to newbies.

a second thread, completely clear of the theoretical side and clear of the discussion , could be a nice, continuing collection.

I shall refrain from opening that new thread for tactical/psychological reasons

but if any other people think that it would be a good idea to have a clean thread: please do so and open a second one.

I'd be contributing soon with images taken through my brand new achro
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 01-09-2012, 04:01 PM
rolls05 (Roland)
Oldie newbie

rolls05 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: newzealand
Posts: 123
And thank you all for a great thread , Enjoyed it immensely. I found what I wanted to know even tho it was on the back of silv's thread. And thanks Ivo for your incite. Very informative.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 01-09-2012, 04:19 PM
irwjager's Avatar
irwjager (Ivo)
Registered User

irwjager is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 532
Congrats on your decision Annette (an achromat would have been my choice too )

If you ever start running into problems with the chromatic aberration, know that there are a lot of ways to eliminate it, both using hardware and using software.

The Internet is a free place and silly questions don't exist. It'd be sillier to not ask and remain wondering or doubting!

It's hard enough for beginners as it is, so personally, I really want to keep the beginners section factual, informative and free of confusing misinformation. My main concern is simply that (other) beginners might make bad decisions based on bad information, asking the same wrong questions and/or making the same wrong comparisons when they are in the shop to buy their next scope. This is why I (and other IIS members) tried to tell you that the questions you ask were rather pointless for the purposes and motives that you stated at the start of this thread. It is certainly your prerogative to ignore any advice given and be headstrong about things - on this or any other forum for that matter. However, please remember that other people may read the same thread and draw conclusions based on its content.

Good luck with the new purchase & all the best,
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:09 PM
Regulus's Avatar
Regulus (Trevor)
Regulus - Couer de Leon

Regulus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Devonport, Tasmania
Posts: 2,350
Thanks Silv. An absolutely fascinating thread. Enjoyable and informative in so many ways.

I think it's a great idea (as are other similar comparison subjects) for an ongoing, or occasional, thread.

Enjoy the new scope, and post a piccy or two for us.

Trevor
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 09:51 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement