Double standards

[Fossil (Jonathan)]

I'd forgotten about Mind your language... brilliant.

Woo Hoo, it's beer o'clock. Time to pick SWMBO up and head home.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by toryglen-boy

isnt it wierd? the differences in language and culture? i have heard people here say "wog" and its a word that i find deeply, deeply offensive, almost as offensive as other words that i would NEVER use in any form of communication, spoken, written or otherwise.

what a strange and wonderful world we live in.

I think 'wog' started as an insult but when the 'victims' started to use the word and take it over it lost its impact, though I still wouldn't use it. There was a movie made a few years ago about a Greek kid growing up in ?Melbourne? called Wog Boy. A lot of self-depricating humour which of course ozzies (and poms, scots & Irish) really enjoy.

[Baron von Richthofen (Vaclav)]

Originally Posted by astroron

Vars, your one eyed view of history is both wrong and very badly distorted
It was not only English convicts who where transported to Australia,they came from all the countries of the UK.
Also Brutality was the norm for most penal colonies all over the world.
A lot of convicts had done very little crime to get transported, but with the judicial system being as it was and the jails over flowing it was a solution to a problem.
Some of the best administrators and architects and other fields where former convicts.

When is said England I meant Great Britton and my comments are from personal experience when I was younger
I thought that was all behind me but I was wrong, it seems that if you are a nice guy nearly everybody wants to put you down, (I am not from Australia or English speaking country)
It seems if you are not a beer swilling football fanatic you don't fit in Australia

[astroron (Ron)]

What can I say Life is not perfect and some people have a harder time than others.
As a Pommie guy, I have had a good life in Australia, and as far as I am concerned would not live anywhere else
PS
I have taken a lot of stick over the years for being a pom, but give back as much as I take

[mac (Matt)]

Immigration into New Zealand can also be difficult, but is known internationally to be more lenient than Australia. So a lot of people get NZ citizenship and then move to Australia.

My wife and I dealt with immigration in the UK (for a skilled migrants' visa), and they were terribly awkward to work with too. However, one of my regrets in life was not staying long enough to get British citizenship. There's nothing quite like an EU passport!

A New Zealand passport goes a long way (further than an Aussie one), but an EU passport is IMHO the 'holy grail'. Live and work without visas anywhere in the European Union...mmm...

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Yes, you are correct. I was going to use xenophobic (well xeno-something, couldn't remember for the life of me the whole word lol). xenomorph kept coming into my head!

I agree about culture. If only we took the time to talk to people from other culture, smile, laugh, things would be better. How many people still look at people of Middle Eastern descent with suspicion? I see it all the time. How about giving them a genuine smile or saying hello?

Let's consider Howard's changes to citizenship testing - completely unnecessary and squarely aimed at people of Middle Eastern descent I might add. Howard deliberately flamed xenophobia and created panic amongst the idiotic, non thinking general populace who wouldn't stop to think about something if it hit them in the head. Oh, and Menzies wasn't any better - he preferred a white supremicist Australia. Revolting. We're all one species, you'd think that a mature species would be capable of co-existing with others of its same species irrespective of looks, age, sexual preference, political preference/opinion etc, but alas...I'm dreaming.

Dave

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

If you said xenophobic I'd be more inclined to agree. Racism is based on ignorance and the best cure is exposure to people of other races.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

My dad has a strong German accent (quite often he is mistaken for being a Scotsman lol). It's not the accent, it's the attitude of people. If you take the time to listen, and listen carefully, with 100% attention to the person speaking, you'll find that you can understand them better. Maybe not perfect, but better. I used to work with a lovely Scottish girl who had a lovely, but very strong accent and it took me a very determined month to really catch on to everything she was saying. After that, I had no issues. True, in a random encounter, you don't have that opportunity, but still, I see many people having deliberate issues with accents.

Dave

PS for some reason people keep asking me if I'm a New Zealander or Irish - probably because I roll my vowels, much like you would in Gaelige in many instances.

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

There is nothing harder to shift than an ingrained accent, especially a Scottish accent. My grandmother arrived at the age of 14 and lost her accent completely. Grandad arrived at 18 and never lost it. He died at 84 and was still so broad that my wife had trouble understanding him. I also know another family where the older children never lost their Scots accent but the younger ones sound completely aussie. My German mother-in-law arrive when she was 20 and still has a bit of an accent but not that much. (With her you can understand the words - just not the logic And, yes, my wife would agree).

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Fossil

He he... Duncan, don't ever watch an episode of Kingswood Country then

Now you're bringing back fond memories. Pickle me grandmother! Loved Kingswood Country, simply brilliant Australian comedy, one of the best we've produced imho. Not the Kingswood! I must get it on DVD

Dave

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by mac

Immigration into New Zealand can also be difficult, but is known internationally to be more lenient than Australia. So a lot of people get NZ citizenship and then move to Australia.

Indeed. Lots of folk even get born there just so they can emigrate to Oz.

[hulloleeds]

I'm a permanent resident. Have been for 10 years. Have experienced the same thing regarding jobs as Duncan. Have deduced that up until now, it was vastly more important to my saturdays that I not be required to compulsory vote. It's almost like a superpower

[MrB (Simon)]

It's not just Australia,
I can't get UK citizenship because it's my mothers family that is from the UK, not my fathers.
My grandad on my mother's side(her dad) and everyone before him were born in the UK.
But I don't qualify..... UNLESS, I was born after 1985.... then my mothers family does count.... ahhh, why 1985? Who knows!

My brother had no end of trouble, finally he was allowed an Ancestral Visa.

[gman (Grant)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Agreed.

gman - a person is a person. Doesn't everyone deserve a fair go? Or do we pre-judge them on country of origin? How fair is that? How just is that? Does that make us any better than the tyrants they are escaping?

Dave

Dpastern,
I don't recall saying that immigrants can't have a fair go. What I am saying is that different cultures need to assimilate into the community, not take over small patches.
I guess you have never visited places like Springvale or Footscray in Melbourne - For memory, Punchbowl and Bankstown in Sydney are very similar.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Does it really matter if they have their own smaller communities within ours? Talk about intolerance.

Dave

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Lisa Curry was just talking about this immigration issue. She is totally against fast tracking athletes through the process.
You have an Aussie training for the Olympics or Commonwealth Games, then they import another to take their place. All that training for nothing.
Damn Pollies are only concerned about winning.

[matt]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Does it really matter if they have their own smaller communities within ours? Talk about intolerance.

Dave

Like the tolerance you showed toward that Victorian pollie who got lost for a few days during a bushwalk?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=49539


Cheers.

[toryglen-boy (Duncan)]

This has been a very interesting thread, and one thats been very well maintained, and in good spirits, although i think i has went a bit O/T

So there you have it. if you can run or ice skate really well, then you get instant citizenship, even over those who cant apply for 4 years, and contribute more to thier local community over that time frame

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Sorry Matt but I simply have no tolerance or pity or care for politicians. Nothing is ever going to change that. They are a waste of space imho.

I have all the time in the world for other cultures and other languages and other peoples. One is useful in this world, the other one isn't.

Dave

Originally Posted by matt

Like the tolerance you showed toward that Victorian pollie who got lost for a few days during a bushwalk?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=49539


Cheers.

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Unless you can trace your bloodline back 40,000 years to the first boatload to Australia, I reckon we're all immigrants.

Hey Jeanette, great post.

Well I thought I might fly this flag and see where it leads. But first I need to get a few things out of the way so we dont have to waste time on them later. (i) I love living in Australia (ii) Yes I feel lucky to be an Australian citizen and (iii) no I don't particularly want to live anywhere else (though I sometimes love holidaying elswhere).

In my respectful opinion we are all citizens of the world and I have no right to tell anyone where they can live and no one has a right to tell me where I can live.

One thing thats clear to me from reading this thread is that we all have a very different notion of what makes a person "undesirable". Some people you wouldnt let into the country I might think would make great citizens and vice versa. Its silly really to have immigration rules because if we ever sat down to actually discuss who we should weed out and who we shouldnt we would never agree.

I can see you saying, what about criminals and terrorists etc, we would all agree to keep them out. OK, first the citizens of every country have their fair share of criminals and terrorists etc. Citizenship does not make us immune from that. Secondly your immigration laws may stop some "criminals etc" comming here but they will go elsewhere and some that are stopped elsewhere will get in here (the world goes round). When we find criminals and terrorists among us the right way to deal with them is to use the criminal law. Trying to screen them from comming in is hopeless, it doesnt work (the biggest and worst criminals get in easily) and it can be the worst thing because in the globalising world the most effective criminal acts are committed at arms length.

I remember a story from a few years back about "stateless people". "Stateless" it means you have no citizenship. That is, although you were born on this earth you do not have a right to live anywhere on earth. I think thats absurd.

OK, I think thats enough for starters. See what responses we get if any.

regards

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Most of the "terrorism" comments are BS imho. It's just an excuse for governments to monitor the populace and spy on us, restrict our freedoms etc. Of course governments want to brainwash the ordinary populace into believe that we're at high risk of terrorism etc. It's in their benefit to control us.

Dave

[matt]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Sorry Matt but I simply have no tolerance or pity or care for politicians. Nothing is ever going to change that. They are a waste of space imho.

I have all the time in the world for other cultures and other languages and other peoples. One is useful in this world, the other one isn't.

Dave

No worries, Dave.

It's just my belief that you can't be selectively tolerant...

As far as pollies go, I understand where you're coming from, but again, must preach a little moderation.

I have met, interviewed, got to know, many types of political animals over the many years I've worked in the media. Many fall into the category into which you have the entire bunch pidgeon-holed...but there have also been many exceptions. I've met (and know) many who get into the caper for very altruistic and decent reasons, only to be ground down by the party machine or thwarted by the ever-changing mood of the electorate itself.

Were they weak? Were they misguided in their belief that they could effect change from within? Perhaps.

What I do know is they are our most obvious hope of 'getting things done' within the confines of the democracy which exists, and surely are a better alternative than not having elected representatives.

There's good and bad in all walks of life, as you very well know, and it's not fair to brush an entire group of people because of the failings of those among them.

Cheers...and all the best.