$10 dollar yearly fee suggestion

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by Ausrock

It's not really a "poor suggestion", it's just one of probably a few options to try and limit problems (or more specifically, problem members), however, Mike has very clearly spelt out the Admin's position which should be both admired and respected.........and that should be the end of this discussion.

well the occurrence of said problems has been very rare and there is an existing solution to 'problem members'. Not a justification to slug everyone $10. no need to bold text me mate, just presenting my opinion like everyone else

[Octane (Humayun)]

Agree with you, Sab.

A few handful of shonky people/deals over 7 years is not endemic.

Long live IIS.

H

[mill (Martin)]

Can a admin please please and please again lock this thread
It is getting tiresome and it is already said that there will be no fees

[Kevnool (Kev)]

Originally Posted by mill

Can a admin please please and please again lock this thread
It is getting tiresome and it is already said that there will be no fees

I thought that a few posts back.

Cheers

[Ausrock (Chris)]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

well the occurrence of said problems has been very rare and there is an existing solution to 'problem members'. Not a justification to slug everyone $10. no need to bold text me mate, just presenting my opinion like everyone else

Touchy, touchy...........the bold text was not, I repeat.......was not aimed at you, it was just emphasising (in general) that the subject had been dealt with by Mike and should now be closed.

Hat, coat...........

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by iceman

IceInSpace is 100% free to use and always will be.

I agree with this 100%, however at the same time I see a viable compromise that may be a possible improvement to the complaints registered in this thread. Have you thought of making the classified forums available to paying registered members only? Not only would any small cost associated (could be as little as $2) dissueade any potential fraudsters from posting, but the fact that you would then have the traceable personal details of any members through their payment would act as a second deterrant.

So keep IIS free, but introduce a small fee to access the classified section to sell. Perfect compromise I say!

[PCH (Paul)]

From that, I'm guessing that only the site owners would have access to the participants' details, - which presumably means that by neccessity, they'd have to become involved in any dispute - especially one involving police action.

Whereas, I thought Mike had already expressed a wish not to be involved in any part of the deals or possible follow up action.

Just a thought

Originally Posted by Kal

I agree with this 100%, however at the same time I see a viable compromise that may be a possible improvement to the complaints registered in this thread. Have you thought of making the classified forums available to paying registered members only? Not only would any small cost associated (could be as little as $2) dissueade any potential fraudsters from posting, but the fact that you would then have the traceable personal details of any members through their payment would act as a second deterrant.

So keep IIS free, but introduce a small fee to access the classified section to sell. Perfect compromise I say!

[Poita (Peter)]

I think make the donate button more obvious, I didn't notice it, but am happy to do so.
I don't like fees, I haven't joined astromart because they don't take paypal and twice when I've gone to join I didn't have my cards with me, so I just gave up.
It is difficult when you are first getting into something, and need some help to choose from the hundreds of forums out there, and a fee is a real deterrent, even if low. A reminder about the donation button once you have been a member for a month, and perhaps once a year would be fine by me.
Also I am a member of some virtual pinball sites that let you pay a fee to be a silver or gold member. Doesn't get you much other than access to the downloads section and a note next to your name saying 'paid member', but a hell of a lot of people do end up becoming a paid member because it is cheap to do so.
I'd like something like that.

[Brundah1 (David)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

nice discussion guys but making it personal is not the answer - moving to mods area for discussion and after that the post may return.

1) Thank you David Hough for moving this post after comments became too personal - that is one function of a Moderator. I was not aware of the posts that went personal before the whole thread was moved!

2) Mike has spoken (again) as Owner - IIS will remain free of fees!
Its time for everyone to move on from that minor suggestion. We should all be thankful for how this website has been set up and funded.

3) I started another thread respectfully addressed to the Owner & Moderators to please explain why the original thread had been moved/ deleted. That later thread has been locked without response from either Owner or Moderator - I can live with that as the original thread has been reinstated.
That said, I have been a moderator on another SIG for 10 years, a brief courtesy reply from David or Mike, would have been how I would have handled this respectful please explain. Yes a Moderator's life is a thankless task - but courtesy cost little and gains much in the way of respect.)

4) Almost every reply to the original post has focused on the suggestions about imposing fees.

Few, if any have responded to suggestions about beefing up the new member joining procedures, that would ensure as best as possible, that real indenities are provided to the Owners / Moderators and that new members fully understand their legal responsibilities; when using Ice Trades. (Maybe old members identities too?)

This in no way suggests that Owners of IIS, should become involved in Ice Trades transaction disputes or fraud, other than to provide known real identity information to police if requested. I would have thought the suggested improvements to the membership application process, would actually improve legal protection for the Owners of IIS. Very few posts on this thread, if any, commented on this suggestion specifically.

Again I invite Mike and the Moderators to revisit the above membership real identity issues and the responsibility of members to provide this information thruthfully.

FYI, today I joined up from my wife's laptop using her gmail address and a false location address in Oakland Florida. I did not read the TOS, merely ticked the box (most software licence acceptance requires you to scan down to the end before you can tick the box). This membership application was processed without problems. Please delete this registration once inspected.

Mike, I did the above to demonstrate the registration process is too sloppy, for a website hosting a facility like Ice Trades.
This is not a personal criticism, or of the Ice Trades process, or TOS; just to highlight an opening for the unscrupulous. I realise the rare occurrence of serious problems on Ice Trades - but with respect weak points once highlighted should be addressed.

5) I thank the Owners and Moderators for the understanding and patience to allow newer members (like me) to make suggestions and allow a constructive discussion to continue on a thread - even when a similar issue may have been discussed before.

6) To members generally, with respect, I am no fan of closed minds and put-downs; some previous posts on this thread contain evidence of this. As David Hough said keep the personal comments (or denegrations) out of the posts.

7) Mike or David, now would be a good time to lock this thread too!

David

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Brundah1

3) I started another thread respectfully addressed to the Owner & Moderators to please explain why the original thread had been moved/ deleted. That later thread has been locked without response from either Owner or Moderator - I can live with that as the original thread has been reinstated.
That said, I have been a moderator on another SIG for 10 years, a brief courtesy reply from David or Mike, would have been how I would have handled this respectful please explain. Yes a Moderator's life is a thankless task - but courtesy cost little and gains much in the way of respect.)

Phil (moderator) replied to the thread later, explaining what had been done.
You may not have seen the reply.

As a general but very grey rule, threads started that ask "why was my thread moved or locked or deleted?" are almost always locked or deleted. It's nothing personal. A simple PM to a moderator is a way to get your answer, instead of starting a new thread in the public forum about it.

Originally Posted by Brundah1

4) Almost every reply to the original post has focused on the suggestions about imposing fees.

Few, if any have responded to suggestions about beefing up the new member joining procedures, that would ensure as best as possible, that real indenities are provided to the Owners / Moderators and that new members fully understand their legal responsibilities; when using Ice Trades. (Maybe old members identities too?)

This in no way suggests that Owners of IIS, should become involved in Ice Trades transaction disputes or fraud, other than to provide known real identity information to police if requested. I would have thought the suggested improvements to the membership application process, would actually improve legal protection for the Owners of IIS. Very few posts on this thread, if any, commented on this suggestion specifically.

Again I invite Mike and the Moderators to revisit the above membership real identity issues and the responsibility of members to provide this information thruthfully.

I'm just not interested in implementing something like this. Members have their own reasons for wishing to remain anonymous on online forums, and I certainly don't have any intention on forcing "real" identities when people join IceInSpace.
There's other closed, gated communities like that where identities are checked, and I simply don't want any part of it.

Who's going to check their real identities? I don't have the time or inclination or desire to implement such a feature.

Also, it's simply not required. As has already been stated, for the very small number of issues out of the tens of thousands of transactions that have taken place through IceTrade, I don't understand the need to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Follow the simply, straight forward guidelines whether you're a buyer or a seller, and you'll find out your own real identities with the person you're dealing with anyway.

Originally Posted by Brundah1

5) I thank the Owners and Moderators for the understanding and patience to allow newer members (like me) to make suggestions and allow a constructive discussion to continue on a thread - even when a similar issue may have been discussed before.

You're welcome Questions and constructive discussions are always welcome.

Originally Posted by Brundah1

7) Mike or David, now would be a good time to lock this thread too!

The discussion is fine. There's a few people covering the same ground as has already been covered, but if people want to have their say that's fine.

If people stop replying to it, it will die it's natural death and drop off the "new posts" list

[TrevorW]

Just a footnote

I also have been fairly happy over the years with the site albeit I've had a few complaints re threads/posts being deleted without notification or reason as to why.

I don't think a joining fee is appropriate paying a fee implies that as a member you have certain rights and expectations.

A moderate fee for selling an item on-line, I'd be happy with that

Besides I'm tighter than a fishes xxxx
Clear skies

[andrew2008]

This may have been said but i don't think a fee will fix the problems in the classifieds. Someone planning to scam you out of money is not likely to be put off by the idea of paying a nominal fee to sell you an item of reasonable value that doesn't exist. It may even make it more appealing by giving the illusion of safety to potential buyers.

There is also the possibility it could open Mike and ISS up to legal action if people see the fee as a gaurantee they are safe. Not exactly sure on this but who knows where the courts will place liability in such a case even with a disclaimer.

[Brundah1 (David)]

Mike,
Thanks for your reply and explanations.

No intentions for you to have to more work to do on registrations, just suggesting to clearly put the onus on members to provide truthful information and tick a box to that effect.

I will follow your Ice Trades TOS advice - even more closely now.

My comments stand, however you have the final say and the responsibility rests with you!

Cheers,

David

[UniPol]

I'm not sure of the logistics of setting up a website, the costs and technical details it entails however I do understand it does come at a cost albeit in time and money to the owner et. al. so I have decided to donate $10 a month starting from today for at least the next twelve months because I can access this site at any time, advertise, post threads/posts and above all share and embrace knowledge acquired over many years of amateur astronomy. Think what you may have spent $10 on in the previous month(s)?

One more thought, think how much it would cost you to advertise your scope and equipment in the local newspaper versus Ice Trades Classifieds especially if your items sell (if at all)?