Ban the Imperial Measures Forever!

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Hi,

We have already banned imperial measures in a strict sense, as the SI or metric system is now the only legal system for trade in Australia. The relevant legislation allows for certain imperial units to be continued with where it is provided for by international treaty (nautical miles) or where the old units are so entrenched it would be against the public interest to try to change (degrees, minutes, and seconds; the metric unit of angular measure is the radian).

So in a strictly legal sense astro gear advertised for sale in Australia should indeed be described in metric terms only, but no-one is going to get prosecuted for not doing so unless they are gaining some sort of improper rip-off advantage that way. Many retailers will be using existing catalogue descriptions written and supplied from overseas, and it would cost them extra to rewrite and reprint it, and we would pay for that eventually.

It is interesting to note the the USA legalised a metric system of measure as early as 1866, and of course their currency is decidedly metric. In 1988 they passed a law making the metric system the "preferred" system in the US, but what they have not done there is to pass any further law restricting the use of imperial units, as Australia has done.

As for the UK they will go metric in time, they must eventually, but it will be painful with so much rich history in the home of imperial measure. They have given us after all:

acres, bushels, chains, chalders, chaldrons, cloves, crowns, drachms, drams, farthings, fathoms, feet, florins, foolscap, fortnights, furlongs, gallons, gills, grains, groats, guineas, hogsheads, hundredweights, lasts, leagues, luggs, miles, minims, nails, ounces, pecks, pence, pennyweights, pints, poles, perchs, pounds, quarts, quarters, rods, roods, sacks, scruples, stones, tods, tons, troy ounces, wire gauges, weys and yards

Cheers

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by wavelandscott

on...

does a 100 gram buger have the same appeal as a 1/4 pounder? I think not!

Mate, if you can produce a 100g booger I'll buy you a beer...........sorry, could not resist the rhyming joke

Cheers

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

So why do you think a Decimal based system is so good?

I'm a Duodecimal man myself, much more versatile and great for sharing! Tell me, how many inches in a foot

Still, it's half a dozen of one and six of the other

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

and here i was thinking it was toes and feet

oh well

geoff

[slice of heaven]

I'm fluent in both and I'll use either at any time depending what suits, I also use centimetres

Nearly 4 decades on and the imperial measurements are still being used by everyone, even youngsters, without a second thought. Ask them what size bike they ride, if it's not a racing bike it's stated in inches.
What size rims do you have on your car? 13s 14s 15s 16s 17s ... thats inches.

Australia fully converting to metric is a milestone that's yet to be reached.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I have always found it amusing that telescope apertures are specified in inches (pretty well universally) and eyepieces are either 2" or 1 1/4" but the focal length is always in mm! Even in the US!!

In the late 70's I worked in a place where the clerical assistant had a "decimal clock". It had 12 hours, but had decimal minutes. When you did your timesheet you had to fill it out in decimal hours. So you started at 8.5 and had lunch from 12.5 to 1.25, finishing at 4.5 for a total day of 7.25 hours. It made her job easier by making it harder for the other 20 staff. Many would constantly start work at 8.3 and take lunch from 12.3 to 1.15, knocking off at 4.3 giving a total day of 7.15 hours.... Making it hard to work up a "flex day".

Around 1966 my parents owned a milk bar and they had a number of customers come in complaining about the new decimal system. A few of them said "why can't they just wait until all the old people have died and introduce it then?"

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by OneOfOne

Around 1966 my parents owned a milk bar and they had a number of customers come in complaining about the new decimal system. A few of them said "why can't they just wait until all the old people have died and introduce it then?"

My Mum could always add up pounds/shillings/pence in her head, but with this "new-fangled decimal currency", she always needed paper and pencil

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by GeoffW1

..... pounds, quarts, quarters, rods, roods, sacks, scruples, stones, tods, tons...

I ain't got no scruples.

[rmcpb (Rob)]

Keep them both, that way we can all brag about being multilingual

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by wavelandscott

Dosen't an inch of rain sound so much better than so many mm of rain?

not particularly, although some would say I am not romantic.

Or doesn't a top speed in miles per hour just sound faster than kilometers per hour?

no, 100 mph does not sound "faster" than 160 kph. or is it that "romantic" problem again...

Besides, I recently read that the "kilogram" is getting lighter...does a 100 gram buger have the same appeal as a 1/4 pounder? I think not!

A 1/4 pounder (burger) does not sound appealing in any unit of measure!
see the thread, "They say we're Overweight" http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=23985

I suspect everyone will want to change all temperature measures to celsius next...

Mill states:

The old farts and imperial purists are just holding on to their stupid inches and feet.

could not agree more but i may have said it with a little bit more tact.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Certainly in the workshop, millimetres are the rule.
But I convert fairly freely between imperial and metric so apart from work, I don't care if figures are presented either way.

[Dujon]

While many so called 'imperial' measurements are based on historical (and perfectly reasonable) reasoning I am firmly in the camp of those who believe the decimal system - metric if you will - is the best option we have.

I too was brought up in the era of £sd (settle down hippies) and was involved, being a banker at the time, in the change over in this country to dollars and cents. That of course was only the currency side of things. We also had to go through the phases of changing from pounds and stones to Kilogrammes and grammes; gallons (imperial) to litres and so on and so forth.

Oddly enough I made a comment during a discussion on the same subject just a few days ago on another (but non-astronomy) site. Perhaps it has become for some reason a general debate?

Surely I still sometimes think in my old terms - particularly when it comes to someone's height - but, at the same time, I am more than happy to work in millimetres when it comes to measuring out pieces of timber or metal. In those cases I have overcome the need to convert the metric measurements 'back' to imperial. By the same token, if someone quotes me a measurement in centimetres I automatically convert it to mm.

I think the crux of any conversion is not the actual change over, it's just the matter of changing one's thinking and ignoring the mental gymnastics involved in attempting to relate the 'new' measurements to the 'old'.

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by Dujon

I think the crux of any conversion is not the actual change over, it's just the matter of changing one's thinking and ignoring the mental gymnastics involved in attempting to relate the 'new' measurements to the 'old'.

I think you are correct.
Instead of converting just become familiar with the "new" measurement.

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by mill

Now that is where the problem lies.
The old farts and imperial purists are just holding on to their stupid inches and feet.
How long ago was Australia gone over to metric?
And what about your speedometer in the car.
Como'n lets get real, it is just some old people holding on to their stuff (or are they just the poms ).
If everything was standarised i wouldn't have to think "do i need an 12mm spanner or a 7/16.

You will be an Old Fart one day and when they put you in your box they can measure you any way you want
I use both measures just as well and I am an older person

[mickoking]

I am a Millimetre/ Metre man. The only time I use Centimetres is when I am describing someones height (Incidently I am 178 cm's tall).Some may find Miles more 'romantic' than saying Kilometres but I think the Aussie slang for Km's, klicks, leaves miles for dead: eg "Yeah mate the pub is five klicks up ta road then turn right, you cant miss it".

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

New clocks in time units of ten.
Something like 100 units a day (instead of 24 hours a day) 100 milli-units per unit (instead of minutes) and 100 Micro-units per milli-unit (instead of seconds).

Just been watching Battlestar Galactica, they beat ya to it, time is measured in Centons

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

We had this same kind of discussion about 15 months ago ....
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=10567

I'm going to post part of what I said back then:

" I quote my height as 5'8", but specify my weight in kilograms...

I put 34-36 psi of air in my tyres, which run on 16" wheels, but the other set of wheels .... are 15" diameter running 235/70 (ie 235 mm width) tyres.

My petrol tank holds 132 litres of fuel, and 65 litres of LPG in the gas tank, but I work out my economy in miles per gallon if I want a figure that means something to me ...

I read the celsius figures on my thermometer, but I still quote atmospheric pressure as 14 psi (at sea level - my old chem teacher would be horrified that I didn't quote it as 101.3 kPa instead) and I know that a 20 knot wind will make the rigging on a 15 foot hobie-cat "hum".

I simply use or quote whichever figures work well for me, the ones that I can best understand or appreciate in the privacy of my own mind, but if you want a system of measurements that makes some kind of sense then the metric measurements win hands down "

As for metric time - it's been done before... the Julian Date system is a kind of metric time scheme, the best known version around here, and it is one that works in some arenas - as long as you find time of the format
(7digits).(8digits) easy to work with on a day to day basis.

Other suggested versions of metric time:

http://www.billcollins.com.au/bc/mt/index.htm

http://zapatopi.net/metrictime/

http://www.indwes.edu/Faculty/bcupp/things/metrictm.htm

http://www.decimaltime.hynes.net/metric.html


There's dozens more around the net, some good some bad - many similar ones derived by many people - trouble is, none of these systems do quite work. Bit of a shame really, I quite LIKE the idea of metric time!

It seems that the Universe itself does not WANT to be metricised!

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Whatever the outcome is over time, selection of the eventual winner will be a fascinating excercise in Darwinian mechanics. Natural selection always (according to the observations thus far) results in an eventual clear winner - the loser dying out completely and utterly. I'd say we're still in early to mid sequence at this stage, so it'll be interesting to re-visit this topic in another 30 years or so.

[Dujon]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

... so it'll be interesting to re-visit this topic in another 30 years or so.

Yes indeed. I wish!

[csb (Craig)]

Now that's an issue I was thinking about whilst reading this debate, time.

How much easier keeping track of things because we use a universal clock and calender.

This only came about over time (sorry) and through legislation. The debate must have been enormous as countries and regions talked about the issue of the calender.

Yes, I say to the US, you don't have to lead the world in everything. Take note of what the rest of the world is doing - Go Metric!