Massive jetstream!!! - Page 2

pgc hunter · #21 06-07-2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Shows you how much thrust the engines (PW F135-100) for a F35 generate, in such a small package. Only 1.7t in weight and yet they generate 43000lbs of thrust!!!.

The F-22 is no dog either...... I was parked at the north end of RWY 17 at Avalon Airport on their arrival for the airshow when they slammed their twin Pratt & Whitney F119 PW100 engines in full afterburner..... the rest is friggin history......only the B-1 with their 4x GE F101 afterbrurning turbofans came close....... and the FA/18F Superhornet with their twin F414's... WOW just put everything else to bed including the F-16's and F/18's...

renormalised (Carl) · #22 06-07-2011, 11:32 PM

Right now, there's a China Southern Airways B777 (flight CZ302) at 36000, doing 844mph (1358kmh) ground speed. He's probably only doing 550kts airspeed.

renormalised (Carl) · #23 06-07-2011, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

The F-22 is no dog either...... I was parked at the north end of RWY 17 at Avalon Airport on their arrival for the airshow when they slammed their twin Pratt & Whitney F119 PW100 engines in full afterburner..... the rest is friggin history......only the B-1 with their 4x GE F101 afterbrurning turbofans came close....... and the FA/18F Superhornet with their twin F414's... WOW just put everything else to bed including the F-16's and F/18's...

The PW F119 engines only generate about 32000lbs, but with two of them, it makes up for the substantially less thrust. Imagine two F135's in a fighter plane. They've tested the F135 up to 50000lbs.

kinetic (Steve) · #24 06-07-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Guys...I think a major point is being lost here... "groundspeed" is a little irrelevant.....you will not produce a sonic boom doing M0.86 in a jetstream adding another M0.15 to your progress over terra firma....your speed through the air is still "just" M0.86.

Sure, some ground-speeds can get up to quite a clip (or just the opposite if you happen to be flying the opposite direction), but the airspeed (ie speed through the airmass) is the same...hence no sonic boom even if your ground speed is Mach 1.01

Pete, I think I covered it in post 2...but he did say he was well aware

Steve

renormalised (Carl) · #25 06-07-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Guys...I think a major point is being lost here... "groundspeed" is a little irrelevant.....you will not produce a sonic boom doing M0.86 in a jetstream adding another M0.15 to your progress over terra firma....your speed through the air is still "just" M0.86.

Sure, some ground-speeds can get up to quite a clip (or just the opposite if you happen to be flying the opposite direction), but the airspeed (ie speed through the airmass) is the same...hence no sonic boom even if your ground speed is Mach 1.01

Quite correct.

koputai (Jason) · #26 07-07-2011, 12:09 AM

If you're in the coastal areas of Sydney, just look up and watch the domestic flights that overfly Sydney at 35,000 - 38,000 ft going North to South. If you line them up with a straight edge at this time of year, you'll see they are pointing in a significantly different direction to that which they are travelling.

My wife went out on the new Qantas Sydney to Dallas flight the other day, which got there in a stupidly short period of time, but on the way back it's often doubtful the plane will make it without having an unscheduled stop for fuel enroute, and that's with the plane only 2/3rds loaded. Luckily she's coming back out of Buenos Aires, a more direct headwind, but a shorter flight.

Cheers,
Jason.

AstralTraveller (David) · #27 07-07-2011, 10:26 AM

You think those planes are moving?? You should see some of the east-bound bicycles around there. Ground speeds above Break 1 - probably Break several if you come off!

renormalised (Carl) · #28 07-07-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

You think those planes are moving?? You should see some of the east-bound bicycles around there. Ground speeds above Break 1 - probably Break several if you come off!

Any sonic booms...or do they just have their iPods turned right up

von Tom (Tom) · #29 08-07-2011, 07:59 PM

I have been working the last couple of days. One of the sectors I was on starts at 45nm Sydney out to 200nm. I sequence the internationals inbound and separate with the outbounds. The westerly wind was phenomenal and made our job quite difficult in judging our vectors for sequencing, particularly when there's a drop off of 80kt headwind descending through 22,000ft. One jet experience severe turbulence inbound.

The highest groundspeed I saw was 670kt westbound at 39,000ft on a B777. The slowest inbound was 180kts groundspeed on an A330 at about 22,000ft. One A330 was holding at 29,000ft doing 560kts groundspeed on the outbound leg of it's hold. I had to turn it immediately back so it didn't lose its slot. One inbound 767 reported 195kts on the nose. Quite a busy couple of days. Back tomorrow at 5am!

Tom

DavidU (Dave) · #30 08-07-2011, 10:14 PM

Tom, that must be a nail biting job you have there.

Gem (Grant) · #31 08-07-2011, 10:25 PM

Perth to Sydney used to be 30 to 45 minutes faster than Sydney to Perth on nearly every flight. I haven't done that leg in a while now.

midnight (Darrin) · #32 08-07-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gem

Perth to Sydney used to be 30 to 45 minutes faster than Sydney to Perth on nearly every flight. I haven't done that leg in a while now.

We went back to Syd very recently and the 747 we were on took about 3hr20min. Coming back on the Monday took 4hr 30min. Easily watched 2 movies coming back.

On one trip over east last year, the Qantas pilot flew down to Melbourne from Syd before turning west to Perth.

Quite fascinating when you think about it.

Really enjoyed the 747 on the flight over. I said to my wife (who hasn't been on one yet) watch the outboard engine as we flew over the Perth hills just after takeoff - moving around like stiff jelly! She quickly shut the blind

Darrin...

FlashDrive (Poppy) · #33 09-07-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

I was just having a look at Singapore airlines flight SIA211 at flightradar24.com and at one stage the plane was moving at a speed of 771mph at 38000 feet. 771mph!!!!!!

. Ground speed, though. The plane is Boeing777 and their rated max cruise speed is 590mph. Must be a hell of a tail wind at that height. A Qantas flight, QFA32, from Heathrow, was doing 750mph at 39000.

As an ex Aircraft Engineer in the RAAF at Amberley ( F111C Squadron ) ..... How these planes can sustain these speeds ( engine rpm ) is difficult ... because at the speed of sound ... air becomes to " thin " and unstable at the intake of a jet engine ( shock wave is formed ) .... the F111 Aircraft has a " canard " that moves into the direction of the airstream causing it ( the air ) to slow down allowing a greater " volume " of air to enter the engine intake .... thus preventing " flame out " or commonly known as " compressor stall "

At 20,000 feet (6,096 meters), the speed of sound is 660 miles per hour (1,062 kilometers per hour).

So these planes could certainly make " excellent " fuel economy from such a tail wind .....infact some Airline Companies give their Pilots a " bonus " because of the fuel savings .

What a " ride " ... just stick your head out the window .....

Flash