Helping school kids with an assignment..

[CraigS]

We're off topic a bit here (sorry Mike) but I reckon I've paid a few dues on this thread so ..
Hi Steffen;

Very interesting. I fully admit I learnt, and continue to learn, in the same way as you have. I don't believe my learning preference is necessarily the same as other folk, however.

There are definitely others who don't backtrack in an attempt try to understand why something doesn't make sense and this can lead to major flaws in understanding and ultimately, a complete disrespect for the rational thinking which (mainsteam) Science is really all about.

The education system should also cater for these types of folk and in my view, should be emphasising that there's always more to learn (hence for example, my dumping in terms like 'Baryonic', and lensing concepts .. as a leader for those to research further). This maybe what's happening in the background behind this question and, as other folk have pointed out, the real investigation is probably not 'darkness' at all … perhaps its more about how to do research.

The problem I have though is that the question will ultimately portray Science as shonky and full of 'made up' stories. Its a bit like the creationist journalist questions put to Richard Dawkins about Evolution. A view of mainstream Science being shonky may result if they don't understand yet, what the scientific process/philosophical basis is all about, (and I do doubt they understand this at this educational stage). Its a bit like the creationist journalist questions put to Richard Dawkins about Evolution.

If the teacher understood the basis of scientific principles, the nature of the question would have demonstrated some form of moderation. I see no evidence of this by focusing on dark matter. As a matter of fact, I rarely see any form of moderation of this nature coming from either the Dept of Education, (via the curriculum), or primary school teachers.

Good conversation. Thank you for your views … I really do respect them and its good to have more comments about it all (sorry Mike .. perhaps a separate thread in General Chat ??).

Ultimately, there's no one answer for all this.

Cheers and Regards.
PS: I really like Bert's explanation of DM and lensing too !! Good one, Bert !

[higginsdj]

The important point is that the answers need to be aimed at the Primary School level - ie at the age of the kids. Giving answers at the current scientific knowledge level is just a waste of time - it will soar miles over the kids heads and what will they have learned (or is it learnt?)

Cheers

[marki]

Oh dear are you guys for real??????? I tried to teach my year 12 physics kids about the partical zoo and all I got was blank stares and a new name for each one e.g. a muon became a munnnn LOL. Good luck trying to get it across to primary aged students but if you explain it as below they will curl up in the foetal position and probably start crying. I think I like the explanation Alex (java) gave best .

Mark

[avandonk]

Young people have a knack of knowing fluff from reality. I think that communication by a teacher that really knows his or her stuff is far more important than any gap in the knowledge levels. Nearly everyone I worked with was inspired by a gifted teacher at a very young age. I include myself in this and I am still awed by people who are seeing further and thinking better than me. An education should be about giving anyone the ability to critically evaluate claims made by scientists and charletans alike.
Too much of our modern society is more aware of the dross and drivel that passes as information because of the crass commercialism to see the reality of our place in the Universe.
I used to have problems with educating PhD students in my lab. It was because I was a lousy teacher. Just because you understand a difficult concept does not mean you can automatically teach it.
I slowly got better by feedback from my students.
They most probably still think I am a stale old fart.

Bert

[marki]

Bert critical thinking is a very big part of the learning process and strongly underpins any valid pedagogy you care to examine. I have taught kids from primary age through to universty students and the only trick to getting the message across to those able to understand is to deliver it in real terms of their level of developement. Primary aged kids are concrete in their understandings and in general have very poor ability at grasping abstract concepts. Idea's must be introduced into "their world" in a form they can link to their own experience of living then gently expanded on. It takes a lot of patience even to attain the smallest goals. I was not having a go at you but rather at some of the more enthusiastic posts below. When I first started teaching 15 odd years ago I was arrogant enough to think those who did not achieve or understand were just lazy and did not work hard enough. I have had to eat my words and in my experience it is only 10 - 15% of any cohort that have their brains wired correctly to understand mathematics and physical science. How could you discuss dark matter with primary aged children who do not even have a basic grasp of the particle model??? Pretty much as Alex posted below minus the sarcasm but overall apply the kiss principle. Remember these kids think dark matter is something Bender and Fry shovel into a fire on the planet express spaceship to make it go.

1. What is Dark Matter?

We don't really know. We believe it sticks galaxies together as they should just fall apart. (link to glue they know about glue).

2. How is Dark Matter formed?

Again we don't really know but observation tells us it must be really heavy. (link to futurama).

3. How was Dark Matter discovered?

Dark matter has not yet been discovered visually but we can see the effect it has by pulling large objects together in the universe just like the Earth pulls you down to its surface. (They will know basic concepts about gravity)

4. Where other than space can Dark Matter be found? (If there is no other places, leave blank.)

We don't really know but do suspect it is everywhere just like the normal stuff. (comfort in familar ideas).

5. How has science made an impact on Dark Matter?

Science has made no impact on dark matter but rather dark matter has fired the imaginations of scientists and led to lots of new and exciting experiments being designed and carried out. The very thought of it's presence has changed the way we view our universe. (a challenge to go and find out more for themselves).

That is my reasoning and how I would answer anyway.



Mark

[higginsdj]

I agree with Mark and like his answers.

[Geoff45 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by iceman

Hi all


Group 1
The Questions are....

1. What is Dark Matter?

2. How is Dark Matter formed?

3. How was Dark Matter discovered?

4. Where other than space can Dark Matter be found? (If there is no other places, leave blank.)

5. How has science made an impact on Dark Matter?

So these kids are after the Nobel Prize are they?

[Julianv (Julian)]

Hi Everyone,

I am actually one of the students that requested these questions from group 2.

I was looking at everyone's comments and I couldnt help myself to signing up because I feel like I had to write something.

Space has always been a great passion of mine and I actually understand quite alot about it from research and the help of Mike.

Thanks for your help everyone and it has helped me greatly in my research.

Cheers.

[Julianv (Julian)]

This was also our own choice and we decided to do this topic so the teachers havent really had a say in it. All those questions we made up ourselves not the teachers.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Hey, Mark, good answers, relating it back to known ideas always helps understanding. I've been a technology tutor and getting people over the hurdle to new ideas is never easy.

And to Julianv, welcome along. Glad to hear you've enjoyed and learned from the discussion. Feel free to ask more or clarify things so that this clever lot can give more answers. ( I excuse myself from the 'clever' bit, I am still learning too )