What is a Higgs Bosen anyways?

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Alex, thank you for trying to explain it. I do not full y understand it (like many technical and scientific subjects that exist in the world), so by some people's standards I must be an inferior, uneducated, God-fearing buffoon. If only I had spent my entire adult life learning science, I may be seen as a more superior human. Never mind.

Thanks again for trying to explain the HB for us poor uneducated types, Most of us appreciate your efforts.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by avandonk

I am terribly sorry xelasnave, I only spent the last forty years studying science. All those years of battling with the mathematics did not come easy.

To compare my knowledge with some sky pilot who believes in fairies or a supreme invisible being is a total cop out.

If you take the time to learn what science is about, you will find it is self consistent and open to any test.

The folks who believe in invisible friends are deluded a best and misguided at worst.

Ignorance is no excuse. Please do some basic study of what has already been verified.

Bert

Bert there is no need to appologise that you only have done 40 years of study ...there is no need to be so hard on yourself as in that time you must have picked up something that gave you some understanding of science

AND the math is not always easy and you should be proud you hung in there

AND I do think your knowledge will prove more valid than the invisable sky pilot just dont be as certain of the facts as his ground crew seem to be or you will get tarred with the same brush was the point. and whats wrong with seeking a total cop out as this seems the way our leaders approach all issues...

I do take the time to learn about science and the disiplines and do get confused when I see so many "scientific" theories failing to meet the tests science call for... I have noticed some "theories" fail to enlist experiment and yet still fausily claim the noble title of "theory"... I guess that is why I find difficulty in accepting the notion of attraction being a given for it seems to me it has never been scientifically established and seized upon too readily to explain stuff that could work in another manner... but lets be clear I am probably a greater sceptic than you when it comes to accepting what observations are fact... it seems to me that the prediction aspect of the scientific method has a lot of folk grasping facts in an exclusive manner such that consideration of alternatives is eliminated ...and I dont mean BS alternatives I mean more in the nature of the elimination of consideration of more research...
You accept the necessity for many samples to be observed before reaching a conclusion but it does seem this simple aspect of scientific method is missed on many occassions and one observation has folk proclaiming the job is done... you worked as a scientist and well aware of sample and I bet you must notice some overlook the hard work of sampling...inflation theory is one I grad at to make my point... as far as I can tell it is still a hypothisis with no experiment in support and certainly no ranges of samples from a large number of "tests" from which to average sample results...

If I have offerred ignorance as an excuse I withdraw from that position and confess I know a little more sometimes than I let on ...how much I do or do not know will remain hidden from me because one simply can not know what one does not know so there is no marker to rank current knowledge with...however I have read everything I can on theoretical physics and recognise that I offer an example of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... but standing back I dont buy the supersymetry thing for me it is hairy fairy and irrespective of the math that supports it I simply can not accept the premise of super partners anymore than I can accept the sky pilot trip ...show me God I will believe show me a super partner and I will believe but until then both will never be accepted by this sceptic.

Bert I say this with absolute sincerity... it is a great honner for me to talk to you and the other professional scientists here.. clearly the different backgrounds make it difficult for all to understand where the others are coming from but all these threads help folk like me who are not professionals but nevertheless have a profound interest in "everything"... I have taken the stance to present as a MUG...not always the easiest course to knowledge but I find from that position folk are happy to correct and guide ... I have no personal pride and never have problems when folk point to what I may not know or understand... but I do hear them and act as best I can on their advice... I study to the best of my abilities and situation with a happy acceptance that I am only standing on the outside looking in... you cant know a trade until not only studying it but also working in the field..as you have... I am not foolish to the degree such point pass me by.

BUT happily I have no degree in science that will be considered for recall when I offer alternatives... so nothing to lose nothing to gain ..no problem.

alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Now, for a little bit more complicated

The Higgs Mechanism

Gauge Theories

That should keep you busy

Thanks Carl for the links... I still havent finished the Stanford lectures that Mark suggested because I have difficulty with finding time these days but my interest is still unwavering.

alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

Alex, thank you for trying to explain it. I do not full y understand it (like many technical and scientific subjects that exist in the world), so by some people's standards I must be an inferior, uneducated, God-fearing buffoon. If only I had spent my entire adult life learning science, I may be seen as a more superior human. Never mind.

Thanks again for trying to explain the HB for us poor uneducated types, Most of us appreciate your efforts.

Stephen I cant explain the HB and it was not an attempt to do so... What I covered was merely my attempt to explain how little I knew hoping someone would jump in with an example or story..whatever ..that would be profound and simple such it would all become clear...
If I may suggest this to you...it matters not what other folks standards are or their qualification of your worth.. it only matters (in my view) that you are happy with yourself .. there will always be greater or lesser persons so there is no point in looking up to or down upon another...... and if you look at most folk they know less than they profess although they are ignorant of what they dont know

and even the folk who are not spiritual sometimes find themselves asking God..why me? ... ..

Who we are turns on our beliefs and beliefs are just that..belief.. when you really look at stuff even facts are built from a belief..it could be a belief in God or science or in my case a belief that I have no belief in anything... so all facts need qualifying within the context of what belief system does that person work with... now if you can believe that all will be good.

Thanks for your support and interest.

alex

[TrevorW]

If the Higgs boson exists then based on this it would be possible to make anti gravity if I'm reading it right ????

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

If the Higgs boson exists then based on this it would be possible to make anti gravity if I'm reading it right ????

I dont know about that....unless there is an anti HB... I doubt there is any opportunity for anti gravity in a push universe as the energy required to push against the universal push would need to be huge.... look at the energy NASA rockets require to push a rocket into space

But you raise in my mind the question... does super symetry require that the HB have a "super" partner... and if it does I dont believe it...still if super symetry is the go all particles have a "super" partner so I guess the HB must have one as well...

alex

[michaellxv (Michael)]

From my brief reading discussion on HB appear to use a different definition of mass to what I am used to.

To me a traditional idea of mass uis a measure of how much stuff you have. i.e 1Kg of water (if measured acurately enough) tells you how many water molecules you have.

When you get down to the level of HB this concept of mass equating to the number of particles does not hold. So what then is the definition of mass?