Some thoughts on Spelling ! - Page 2

bobson (Bob) · #21 10-10-2009, 10:32 PM

Nau yu toking Stefan, tel em layk it iz

Peter Ward · #22 10-10-2009, 10:39 PM

So would you rather have the surgeon who can actually spell scalpel to do some delicate work on your melanoma, or the wun hoo kant ??

Sometimes the devil is in the detail....

marki · #23 10-10-2009, 10:47 PM

Stephen, there can be a large number of reasons why mistakes are made but last time this came up it ended very badly.

Mark

astroron (Ron) · #24 10-10-2009, 11:00 PM

The fact is there is no need for spelling.

Please enlighten me,how do you write a book in Serbia if there is no set spelling? do you just type the words the way they sound to you

Do you have a dictionary?
Why is it that about two thirds of the world's population have English as their second language?
It is also the language of the world diplomacy

That there is a few small countries that maybe have no spelling, and if this is correct it confuses me how they can communicate by the written word

Baddad (Marty) · #25 10-10-2009, 11:03 PM

Hi Paul,

An interesting point. It has been known for some time in the psychological community.
Matt answers it well. the words are complete. Messed up but complete. Remaining intelligable.

From my point of view: Typos are acceptable, consistant bad spelling leads the reader to assess the author to have much less credibility. Therefore the integrity of the piece becomes dubious.

However I, have said previously that it is a personal thing how people express themselves. Individuality. Kind of a special expression, learn to read it. It does not go away.....? We gotta' live with it.

Cheers Marty

Octane (Humayun) · #26 10-10-2009, 11:10 PM

Warning: linked image has some profanity.

But, it's just about the ultimate example of how Internet communication can sometimes be a case of "mash butan".

http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/3sms...8623180829.jpg

Regards,
Humayun

Tandum (Robin) · #27 10-10-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

" More Brain Stuff . . From Cambridge University .

Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rgh it pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs psas it on !!

Cool huh ?!

This supposes that the reader has been taught english phonemically in the first place. Unfortunately, they have taught my children to read using this recognition method and now they can't read. When they come across a word they have not seen before they don't know what it is because they don't know how to sound out words. Don't you love experts.

Octane (Humayun) · #28 10-10-2009, 11:18 PM

Robin,

I'm highly skeptical that this research was actually undertaken, at Cambridge of all places.

Snopes turns up a status of "undetermined" with regards to this potential myth.

I guess the fact that it is on Snopes means that people have doubts as to its veracity.

Regards,
Humayun

Omaroo (Chris Malikoff) · #29 10-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobson

When I worked for Duty Free Shop there were many Japanese students working with us and they said in Japanese language there is no spelling either.

bob

Huh? Japanese is one of the most rigidly-structured written languages in existence! The term "spelling" refers to adherence to a pre-defined letter or character structure making words vary in meaning and context. Given this, Japanese is incredibly strict on correct structure (I lived there and studied it), so what the students told you was, quite frankly, wrong. They probably had a good laugh about it.

Their humour can be a little bizarre at times. The language is heavily dependent on context, as the same word can mean several things. For instance the word "hana" could mean either "nose" or "flower" depending on context. Did you go picking flowers today... or.. did you go picking noses?

Besides, whilst we humans may make sense of that passage, try getting a computer to. Spelling will be important and around for a little while yet me thinks.

Tandum (Robin) · #30 10-10-2009, 11:29 PM

Humayun,
Regardless of myth or fact on this one, this is how they are teaching our kids english these days, up here at least. My son had a bucket load of trouble with english after moving from a public primary to a private secondary as private schools don't have to conform to the states view on teaching english.

marki · #31 10-10-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tandum

Humayun,
Regardless of myth or fact on this one, this is how they are teaching our kids english these days, up here at least. My son had a bucket load of trouble with english after moving from a public primary to a private secondary as private schools don't have to conform to the states view on teaching english.

Robin, teaching english without the use of phonics was all the rage a short while ago (OBE). Over here it has been discarded after about ten years when it was conceded (by the do gooders) that kids could no longer read properly. Back to the three R's again, imagine

.

Mark

Redshift (Phil) · #32 10-10-2009, 11:51 PM

I saw an interesting trick with English once. So long as you start and end a sentence with those two words spelt correctly, and also spell all words of three letters or less correctly, then the other words in the sentence can have letters missing or letters jumbled and the sentence is still perfectly understandable.
English is an amazng languge its no wondr evryone in the wrld wnts to lern it.

I just hope that doesn't catch on though.

bobson (Bob) · #33 11-10-2009, 12:07 AM

Ron

Mate, it seems to me some people think that I am attacking English language here, like I said Serbian is my second language. Al I am saying is it should be simplified. You can not do it overnight, but like I said USA spells "color" we spell "colour". If you read old documents you can notice that English changed a lot from that time for better of course.

"Please enlighten me,how do you write a book in Serbia"

They would write it: BUK

Why would you have two "oo" to make one letter when you already have that letter?

And then logic behind it, EWE? Pronounced "U" ? Whats the logic behind it? Its time for change absurd things like that.

" if there is no set spelling? do you just type the words the way they sound to you"

Thats correct.

"Do you have a dictionary?"

Of course, every language has dictionary. But only to explain words and its meanings. Like word "Astronomy" if you just tell people who never heard about Astronomy they would look in dictionary and find out what it is.

"Why is it that about two thirds of the world's population have English as their second language?"

Hmmm, I wonder why? Why Brazilians speak Portuguese, or Argentinians, Chile, Mexico, Cuba speak Spanish?

Wrong bro, have a look here:
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworl..._languages.htm

"It is also the language of the world diplomacy"

Yes it is, only because Brits and USA couldn't learn Esperanto

"That there is a few small countries that maybe have no spelling, and if this is correct it confuses me how they can communicate by the written word"

This is not valid argument and you know it. Its not how many people do something that makes it right.

"if this is correct it confuses me how they can communicate by the written word"

Very easy mate, very easy, it takes to learn other languages to find out.

cheers

bob

Chris,

"Japanese is incredibly strict on correct structure"

Exactly,

MrB (Simon) · #34 11-10-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobson

They would write it: BUK

Why would you have two "oo" to make one letter when you already have that letter?

And then logic behind it, EWE? Pronounced "U" ? Whats the logic behind it? Its time for change absurd things like that.

Therin lies the problem.... I read BUK as exactly that... buk... buck, luck, duck, f....

If I read 'oo' I know what the word sounds like, because of I've been taught it's spelling and it's sound....
book, took, look, shook
buk, tuk, luk, shuk

Just not the same I'm afraid.
It all comes down to a word I used a moment ago... taught... education.

bobson (Bob) · #35 11-10-2009, 12:28 AM

What about

Floor?
Poor?
Door?

MrB (Simon) · #36 11-10-2009, 12:36 AM

I knew that would be brought up

Through education, again, yourself and most other people can recognise those words as being different and without even consciously thinking about it know they are pronounced differently.... without formalised spelling you would lose that.

What single letter would you replace those 'oo' with?

rat156 · #37 11-10-2009, 12:41 AM

Can I point out that the correct spelling of sic "Croation", is Croatian?

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Cheers
Stuart

bobson (Bob) · #38 11-10-2009, 12:47 AM

Simon,

I understand the problem and have sympathy for foreigners when they start learning English language.
To me too, its normal to read properly either "floor" or "book" because thats the way I was thought from the very beginning. But try to explain to someone who just started learning English why is it so.

"What single letter would you replace those 'oo' with?"

It will only confuse things even further if I suggest one letter. To me it makes sense because I can speak both languages. The problem is in alphabet itself, the way we use it.

To us its normal to sound out letter "I" and pronounce word "eye" "U" and "you" or even "ewe"
We accept this as normal, we have been thought like this and think thats the only way.

Think about this words and the way you write and pronounce them, and imagine all other words are this simple:

START
STOP
SMART

One letter one sound. Simple

bob

BTW

Read this:

" A treatise on phonology: comprising a perfect alphabet for the English language; a specimen exhibition of the absurdities of our present system of orthography; Comstock's, Pitman's, and the Cincinnati alphabet, contrasted; a lecture on phonetics, by Prof. McLaine; the pamphoneticon, and recommendations of Comstock's alphabet"

http://www.archive.org/details/atreatiseonphon00leagoog
http://thenonist.com/index.php/theno..._a_phonemenon/

bobson (Bob) · #39 11-10-2009, 02:25 AM

Ah forget about it, this is Astronomy forum.
Lets hope for clear sky soon.

Cheers all

kinetic (Steve) · #40 11-10-2009, 03:24 AM

What's all this fuss about Spelling anyway?
Are we talking about Aaron or Tori?

Steve