Adrian by all means check out BrownTown - its probably dark enough and may be OK. However in the days when I used a C8 roaming around I tried ovals in Leura Blackheath and Katoomba, and my personal experiences on ovals weren't great because the microclimate on them is unfavourable - they invariably have black soil brought in, and they're watered (to make the grass grow) which spells cold and frosts (the heat radiates away fast on black soil) and really bad dew.
It was far better to be on sandy soil or even better a sandstone outcrop which don't radiate the heat away at night and don't hold water so the dew is negligible. The airstrip was an excellent example of this.
There are a few places I reckon deserve at least going to for a look, even if you don't decide to set up and move on to the next; something to do on a night that is otherwise a bit spoiled by wind or cloud.
1. Continue on the dirt road left past the airfield to the end, this comes out at a clearing just east of Govetts Leap waterfall. The distance is trivial and if anything its further from Mellow and Blackheath so the local lights won't be an issue.
This one I think really deserves to be checked out in daylight though I suspect the road is in good shape, it looks OK on Google at least.
The only concern I'd have is whether you might get fog forming locally on a still winter night, as this is pretty close to the creek that feeds the waterfall.
2. The end of the Mt Hay Road out of north Leura, Google StreetView (!) indicates its good in all directions. Need to check the condition of the road first in daylight as the last time I drove that road was in 2004 and it was 4WD stuff, definitely unsuitable for 2WD cars. While its a bit of a drive, this site is so far into the national park the extra distance should make it comparable to observing from Mt Banks.
3. Mt Banks (Bells Line of Rd from North Richmond). Turn off the highway at the NPWS sign on the left onto a dirt road, when you see a concrete water tank on the left hand side there's a carpark on the righthand side, used to be quite good for observing. I haven't been there at night though since 2010.
Expect to be visited by the park ranger at night BTW as he does patrol this area for idiots.
4. Mt Blackheath. Hargraves has indeed been pretty much ruined by the idiots with searchlights at the Hydro.
While I have also used table rock at Kings Tableland before, I would advise against it as its not suitable for a group with more than a couple of cars and its also seriously dangerous at night as there is a huge sheer cliff close by with no safety measures whatsoever.
Another thought also comes to mind - to approach one of the landowners on Shipley Plateau that has a sizeable empty paddock and ask whether an arrangement could be made to obtain access occasionally.
The location at that's just past the Airfield sadly has a treeline that is too high, and the resulting sky is limited to a strip from zenith to the northwest. I am so grateful for Ivan taking the time to visit this site for us, ta mate, The other site at Mt Hay Rd is a nasty, nasty, nasty road, no good either.
So, I have three other sites, all easy to get to being just one turnoff from the highway each, & they are at Blackheath and Mt Victoria. Good thing though they are not really any further than Hargraves Lookout and Mt Blackheath. One is actually closer than these two.
* 1, Old Blackheath Aerodrome - who the blazes knew there was an aerodrome there once??? Anyway, the site is a big gravel strip at the end of the town of Blackheath at 318 Hat Hill Rd. Car access is easy with a parking lot. No street lights, though its proximity to Blackheath may see a car or two go past. Google streetview shows it horizon is very good with a low treeline.
* 2, Mt Victoria Quarry - this is an abandoned stone quarry at 89 Mt York Road, Mt Victoria. I've been here one time doing a reccie of possible sites. There is a gate which is open, and the treeline is good. Bugger all traffic here at night.
* 3, Roadside Obs on Victoria Falls Road - this site is 3km down Victoria Falls Rd from the Highway. It is an unsealed road which is as long as the unsealed section of road leading to Katoomba Airfield. This location (co-ordinates are on the image below) has a couple of roadside cuttings where to set up from, but there will be no one on this track at night so setting up on the road should be fine (). Google Streetview shows this location as a ridgetop with a MAGNIFICENT horizon! though this also makes it exposed
All these sites are easy to get to, no harder than the Airfield. ALL also happen to be around 1020m above sea level. So, which one?
1, Big area, sealed road access, great horizon, but right next to a town?
2, Old quarry, sealed road access, good horizon, but tricky surface?
3, Roadside, unsealed road access, magnificent horizon, but exposed?
1, 2 or 3?
Adian, Browntown oval has dew to contend with as Wavy mentions. The three above sites are all sand/gravel, so dew situation will be like the Airfield.
Alex.
Last edited by mental4astro; 30-06-2016 at 03:07 PM.
Option No. 1 is out. I've just been told that many lots along this old airstrip have been sold and construction has started.
This leaves the old quarry and Victoria Falls Rd. Ivan and i will be looking at both sites over the next couple of days. Having seen the quarry site, my immediate preference is Vic Falls Rd, as I'm not too sure on how sedan friendly the quarry site is, and the road surface of Vic Falls Rd is the same as that leading to the Airfield.
Hi Alex,
As Shane said, why not take this as an invitation to visit your northern cousins at the Mangrove Mountain Pony Club?
We have plenty of space (no pun intended).
But no amenities. NONE. Zero. Zippo. Sorry. {Insurance Issues have caused a rift here too}.
But it is a good big flat area, parking on field, good horizons, and a reasonable sky.
And not that far up the M1 (from Sydney take the (first) Peats Ridge Road exit, left onto George Downs Drive, left onto Wisemans Ferry Road, then 10.3K).
Edit
So I guess we won't be seeing you guys as
*It is only around 300m elevation
*It is a field of grass
*Dew is a frequent invader
Last edited by Allan_L; 01-07-2016 at 08:01 AM.
Reason: additional information
what about the Ingar campground
Ingar campground is in wentworth falls.
This is a small free campground, with 8 unmarked campsites. There is one large group campsite that can handle up to 20 people and 4-5 and Tents. The location is suitable for Tents.To get there:
Turn off the Great Western Highway at Wentworth Falls at Tableland Road
Drive for 1.6km, then turn left onto Elizabeth Drive.
The Ingar fire trail starts at the end of Queen Elizabeth Drive
Follow the unsealed road for approximately 9.5km, taking the left fork near the end of the trail.
Following your suggestion I looked up this campground to suss out its suitability - you never know in case you've missed something!
Alas, this site is not great for astro. It's in a valley that is prone to fog accumulation. Trees are too tall with no significant clearings offering a good amount of clear sky - the apparent clearings are hanging swamps, which are not like a grassy park, but more like overgrown with low woody shrubs and impossible to hold an asto session in.
When looking for a site that is optimal for astro, there's a set of parameters to look for:
* Set up on a ridge - fog settles in valleys, leaving ridges above the fog
* You want rocky or sandy ground, not grassy. Grass expels a lot of moisture during the night, and forms a lot of dew - this complicates things for your gear and the measures needed to keep it off optics.
* The higher you are, the less the influence of light pollution from Sydney.
* Not surrounded by agricultural land as this has the same affects as turf with dew.
Katoomba Airfield offered all of these. The huge runway area gave us an enormously low tree line. It is on top of sandstone plateau, where fog rolled off into the valley below. The runways are sandy gravel, so dew was never a problem - once we got frost, but as soon as the breeze picked up, the frost evaporated! And being at 1000m above sea level, the influence of Sydney's glow is surprisingly reduced dew to the reduced atmospheric density.
If you think about where professional observatories are set up, they all share the same geographic parameters that we are looking for! Elevated site and rocky substrate, and yes, away from light pollution.
It is not always possible to get these ducks to line up. We can only try to find sites that are as optimal as possible. And sometimes we need to take what we get and compromise. The whole exercise in finding another site away from the Airfield is just that, to find another site that is as optimal for astro as much as we can.
I am actually very grateful for your post, Kim . Many people who have been reading this thread may not have been aware of why we are being so particular with our site selection. Some people would have thought that a golf course or grassy park would have been just fine, not aware that setting up on a golf course makes for an impossible dew situation that could actually be just about eliminated by looking for a site that isn't grass covered. But, if a grass covered area is all that's available, then that's what needs to be dealt with - compromise.
Alex.
Last edited by mental4astro; 01-07-2016 at 09:49 AM.
Hi guys..
Just so happens I moved up to Katoomba a year ago... Scope has been packed away since the move.
I'll keep an eye out for any updates on location..
If you get stuck....mind you not much time, I am now a faithful member of the local RFS. I'm sure the old locals would know of a few good plateaus.....
Let me know if you want me to ask.... Cheers Rob
Mt Banks is a shorter drive - 1h 40m from the CBD and being on the north side of the Grose valley it's darker there that the airfield. There's also a useable small carpark at top of the Pierces Pass turnoff (the area down lower has too many trees).
Conversely Blackheath has basic facilities and we can light a fire if it's cold. Banks has a picnic area but it's a fair way from where you'd be observing.
To do any better the next stops are the disused airstrip above Lithgow, then Hassans Walls (drive through Lithgow to get there).
Access to the disused airstrip on Bells line of Rd is not easy in the dark. Hassans Walls is a great spot but increases the driving time to the extent it isn't realistic unless you're staying overnight.
It's also possible to find spots along the road to Jenolan caves but very very cold as these may be above 1200m
There's an old emergency airstrip not far from Lithgow at the top of Scenic Hill on Chiefly rd (I think) this is the road that comes off the end of Bell's Line rd that goes toward Lithgow, google & pan out at Scenic Hill & you can't miss it, great stretch of dirt amongst the brush, might be worth keeping in the back of the mind.
Yes that's the one I was referring to. Used to belong to Lithgow Scenic Airways. If you haven't been there before you should use GPS to locate it and get there in daylight because...
- it's not readily apparent from the road, in the dark, most would blow straight past without seeing it;
- the highway speed limit is 100km/h and you really must slow right down before coming off the tar to avoid putting your car in some deep potholes - the airstrip hasn't been maintained in 25 years and is quite uneven now with holes and puddles.
Be careful if you have some fool tailgating you. Best to let them pass safely well before you are close to the strip.
Thanks everyone for all the guidance and banter. I must say that I underestimated how hard it is to see, and also underestimated how cold it would get!
That's me on the ground!
Thanks Alex for finding such a good location. Good horizons all-round. I was able to get some shots of some low northern objects. Most bizarre think was being able to see the Sydney harbour bridge from over 100km away! Thanks Adrian and Ivan for views through your scopes/binoviewers.
The other site at Mt Hay Rd is a nasty, nasty, nasty road, no good either.
Anyway, the site is a big gravel strip at the end of the town of Blackheath at 318 Hat Hill Rd. Car access is easy with a parking lot. No street lights, though its proximity to Blackheath may see a car or two go past. Google streetview shows it horizon is very good with a low treeline.
). Google Streetview shows this location as a ridgetop with a MAGNIFICENT horizon! though this also makes it exposed
. Many people who have been reading this thread may not have been aware of why we are being so particular with our site selection. Some people would have thought that a golf course or grassy park would have been just fine, not aware that setting up on a golf course makes for an impossible dew situation that could actually be just about eliminated by looking for a site that isn't grass covered. But, if a grass covered area is all that's available, then that's what needs to be dealt with - compromise.
