Uncertain what a carbon tax is

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Ok trees take in Co2 and pump out oxygen

simple plant more trees, - no carbon tax needed

I suggest people don't stop breathing but stop flatulating, 7 billion people doing it causes severe methane build up which is more damaging

Please shhhh we don't want a methane tax

[Brian W (Brian)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Please shhhh we don't want a methane tax

Actually the Fraser Valley in British Columbia Canada has a significant methane problem because of all the cattle raised in it.
Brian

[marki]

I will only support the carbon tax if they install a carbon emissions meter in all the parliments around Australia. At the end of the day the pollies should only be let out of the building once they have paid their share of the days pointless rantings .

PS: I think Julia is doing a fine job of making sure the opposition obtain complete and utter control in the next election

Mark

[mikesim (Mike)]

Given that even if Australia reduces its carbon emissions to zero, it wont make any material difference what so ever (without the US and China and India doing the same), the tax should be an 'opt in tax'. If you or your Company think its necessary, you must write/email the tax office and ask them to apply the tax at the end of the year to your tax return (total MT carbon emitted by Australia x carbon price divided by the number of people who sign up). Those who dont sign up dont have to pay any carbon tax. Those who dont pay any income tax and sign up will have the tax deducted from their pensions or other Government benefits.
What could be fairer?

[TrevorW]

My point exactly so we make up less that 1% of the worlds population so if the other 99% do nothing what difference will our small effort make

also as world population increases and the standard of living improves in other third world countries etc then consumption will increase more power will be required etc etc

you get my drift, so if we all can see this, why is the Govt and JG so blindly being led down the garden path who is really in control

[Visionoz (Bill)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

My point exactly so we make up less that 1% of the worlds population so if the other 99% do nothing what difference will our small effort make

also as world population increases and the standard of living improves in other third world countries etc then consumption will increase more power will be required etc etc

you get my drift, so if we all can see this, why is the Govt and JG so blindly being led down the garden path who is really in control

FWIW -it's just nothing but a new TAX that we must have!

Cheers
Bill

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by marki

PS: I think Julia is doing a fine job of making sure the opposition obtain complete and utter control in the next election

Mark

And Tony's doing his best to avoid that situation.

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Ok trees take in Co2 and pump out oxygen

simple plant more trees, - no carbon tax needed

I suggest people don't stop breathing but stop flatulating, 7 billion people doing it causes severe methane build up which is more damaging

I agree... but do i have to stop farting? I might explode! :p

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by ving

I agree... but do i have to stop farting? I might explode! :p

Just talk more, that way you wont build up pressure.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

My point exactly so we make up less that 1% of the worlds population so if the other 99% do nothing what difference will our small effort make

also as world population increases and the standard of living improves in other third world countries etc then consumption will increase more power will be required etc etc

you get my drift, so if we all can see this, why is the Govt and JG so blindly being led down the garden path who is really in control

Where does this myth that we are the only country in the world contemplating doing something come from?

The EU has had an Emissions Trading System since 2005. Total and per capita EU emissions are falling, despite rises in a few countries. True, they have to do more to meet their Kyoto targets but to claim nothing is being done is plain wrong.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Once again on the radio (ABC) this morning the new solar cell was publicised -
No one seems to be taking much notice of it - film technology has produced a paint on solar cell that can be applied or printed to a suface ( like a window or a wall or a roof (or for that matter the simpson desert) three times as cost effective as the present solar cell and no structure - paint onto plastic sheet if you like and unroll it next to your caravan.

If we end up selling this one to Japan, I'm moving to Somoa or Norfolk Island. Where the wind can supply my power and no one is going to mess me about.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Where does this myth that we are the only country in the world contemplating doing something come from?

The opposition, their supporters of course. Some people are outraged by Priminister Gillard for saying there would be no Carbon Tax but then appearing to change her mind and moving to impliment a carbon price .. yet so many other sources ARE actually truly lying and missrepresenting and muddying the waters just to help overthrow the government... all the while knowing full well that pricing carbon is something that has to be done, is good policy and they actually agree with it in private - this probably describes at least 50% of opposition members.

This is I guess one of the down sides of our parliamentary system which is often heavily based on running with and driving public opinion no matter how unrobust, missguided or plain ignorant that drive and view may be.

Mike

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Where does this myth that we are the only country in the world contemplating doing something come from?

The EU has had an Emissions Trading System since 2005. Total and per capita EU emissions are falling, despite rises in a few countries. True, they have to do more to meet their Kyoto targets but to claim nothing is being done is plain wrong.

Because it is easier to say no if you think this

[TrevorW]

Over simplification sorry

As stated a number of countries do have policies in place but when you consider that

40% of the worlds manufacturing is done in China and America and neither are signatories to the Kyoto agreement which by the way expires in 2012 nor are the signatories obliged to abide by the rules set down in the agreement

also of the 182 signatories to the agreement few are signifciant manufacturing countries on the world scale

now don't get me wrong I'm all for saving the planet but imposing another tax, increasing power costs by 30% etc does not make the situation better but places undue burden on already struggling families

I'm for real policies that are constructive not reactive

ie: stricter pollution controls, more efficient vehicles, less logging for useless wood chips, not smaller block sizes where no trees are grown, affordable rainwater tanks and solar systems in/on every house (and rebates are the same rate charged by utilities), more efficient buidling designs requiring less heating/cooling, not further surburban expansion so people have to travel further to work etc

Taxes only seem to make the rich richer and the poor poorer IMO

[multiweb (Marc)]

That tax doesn't work. Plain and simple. It didn't work in Europe. I know it first hand. It's not going to work here whatever anybody best intentions are. It's the wrong way to tackle the problem and nobody's denying we have a problem.

Am I the only one getting real tired of all that BS the pollies feed us. From any front I don't care. NSW state budget is 11 billions in the red and it only came to the surface since the last election because they've changed govt so the new one is obviously slashing what the previous one did. But C'mon! Why are pollies allowed to lie to our faces like this. Some one should be in jail over this. This is public money. Who's accountable?

Corruption and spendings are rife every where. One bad decision after another. The only reason we're still going alright is that we entered the GFC with a massive surplus. We've got an excellent life standard because we're loaded. Not many countries in the world have all the natural resources we have. Still not a reason to excuse gross mismanagement of the country's money.

You can' compare us to Germany or other Europeean countries. We're only 20 millions here. Germany has probably 3 times our population in a quarter of the surface, and they had to pay dearly for the merger with East Germany after the Berlin wall fall.
If we need a Carbon Tax then so be it but why aren't we told why, where the money is going to go and what it is going to be used for in plain English, right here right now on the table? Aren't those fair questions?

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

All being fair the government did try to take serious steps to combat these problems and were stopped by the opposition from implementing them.

That being said we have to make some steps even because if we start now we will be the leading nation in the tech and will be able to profit from providing the tech to the rest of the world.

Most of our tech that has been developed here have gone overseas due to decades of underfunding of our developments.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Over simplification sorry

You said "if the other 99% do nothing". I pointed out that some of the other 99% are doing something. I never commented on whether what they are doing is wrong/right/effective/useless, just that it isn't 'nothing'. Couldn't get much simpler really.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

That tax doesn't work. Plain and simple. It didn't work in Europe. I know it first hand. It's not going to work here whatever anybody best intentions are. It's the wrong way to tackle the problem and nobody's denying we have a problem.

Am I the only one getting real tired of all that BS the pollies feed us. From any front I don't care. NSW state budget is 11 billions in the red and it only came to the surface since the last election because they've changed govt so the new one is obviously slashing what the previous one did. But C'mon! Why are pollies allowed to lie to our faces like this. Some one should be in jail over this. This is public money. Who's accountable?

Corruption and spendings are rife every where. One bad decision after another. The only reason we're still going alright is that we entered the GFC with a massive surplus. We've got an excellent life standard because we're loaded. Not many countries in the world have all the natural resources we have. Still not a reason to excuse gross mismanagement of the country's money.

You can' compare us to Germany or other Europeean countries. We're only 20 millions here. Germany has probably 3 times our population in a quarter of the surface, and they had to pay dearly for the merger with East Germany after the Berlin wall fall.
If we need a Carbon Tax then so be it but why aren't we told why, where the money is going to go and what it is going to be used for in plain English, right here right now on the table? Aren't those fair questions?

Sorry Marc but I agree with little of this, off the mark in so many ways in my opinion but hey, sadly (from my perspective) you are not alone in this view. Even though I mostly dissagree with it, I do respect your opinion mate

Mike

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Sorry Marc but I agree with little of this, off the mark in so many ways in my opinion but hey, sadly (from my perspective) you are not alone in this view. Even though I mostly dissagree with it, I do respect your opinion mate

Mike

Same here mate. You've got your own views. Putting preferences aside. I mean, don't you think overall we're not in control anymore and we have to swallow whatever comes our way? It's like governing by proxy. Not clear at all. Don't you think important decisions that have so many ramifications in the economy and are going to strongly affect so many people for a long time should be laid out clearly, even for a vote?

I mean Howard went to the polls with the GST. Julia went to the polls saying no to the Carbon Tax. If she endorses it, then now the least is that it is clearly explained, consequences and all. That's not asking much.

[TrevorW]

Sorry David the comment re over simplifciation was referring to my comment not yours. I was alluding to the fact that although I over simplified the % figures for the sake of arguement, that regardless of our meager attempt to impose restrictions unless the major players also contribute little will be acheived