What makes Celestron better than Meade? - Page 4

DavidTrap (David) · #61 24-09-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypnotist

Hey guys,

yeah I'm 15, so what? Aren't 15 yr olds allowed to be interested in astronomy? What makes me incapable of lifting a 14" OTA? I'm 6 ft! That's probably taller than a number of you!
Enough of that! How would y'all transport a 1400 HD and the rest of the mount?

Bart

No one is saying a 15 yo can't be interested in astronomy. However, you are being offered a lot of sound advice,

Your upgrade path is not the norm (70mm - 350mm aperture)

The scope is not really portable - it is possible to transport it, but most would say this scope needs a home and a permanent pier.

You imply you are a beginner in astrophotography - such a scope is definitely not for a beginner at astrophotography - extremely high magnification requires impeccable guiding and atmospheric conditions.

To say that what you are wanting to do is impossible is wrong, but NASA didn't fire their first Rocket at the moon, they launched a few into orbit first.

I speak from experience. I bought an LX-90 8 inch when I got back into Astronomy. I thought I knew what I was doing, and that autoguiding would make it easy to image at long focal lengths (2000mm) on a low quality mount - I WAS WRONG! I have since bought a high quality mount and have started imaging at 600mm focal length (your scope is 3500mm) - much more successful. If I hadn't taken a major step back in focal length, I am sure I would have been frustrated to the point of giving the hobby away.

You seem to have enthuasium and the funds to buy good gear. You need to work out what your goals are - visual or astrophotography. I think a lot of us have assumed you want to get into astrophotography from your comments in this and other threads. Visually, you would have an awesome setup. It would not be awesome for a beginner at astrophotography. If you want to do imaging, why not use your money to buy something more appropriate. Friends and family are often not impressed by faint fuzzies seen visually, but they do go wow at impressive colour photos. Join a club and see what others are using.

On the transport of a large scope - search the web for some images of a fellow who transports a similarly sized Meade scope in a custom built trailer. I think he also uses a small crane to manoeuvre it onto a tripod.

DT

Octane (Humayun) · #62 24-09-2010, 08:53 AM

You will need a 16803-based sensor for best astrophotography results and a semi-trailer to transport the scope.

H

Paul Haese · #63 24-09-2010, 10:08 AM

I transport my C14 in the back of a Ute (a small pickup truck). It goes into 1 pelican case for the mount and 1 scope case for the scope.

I reckon personally you are making the right decision. Most of us have wasted more money on the supposed upgrade path. You have obvious come to the decision what you want and that is great. You will save yourself a lot of money in the end. Don't be deterred. Nice scope and great choice. For astrophotography you will need a great OAG and a nice sized sensor and you will be grinding out images like the rest of us.

taxman (Matt) · #64 24-09-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

I reckon personally you are making the right decision.

So do I - the amount I have blown by buying something lesser "that's almost as good" and then selling at a loss to get the thing I really wanted in the first place - hoo boy...

Just get the 14"er - you'll work out a system for transport, photography etc.

sejanus (Gavin) · #65 24-09-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypnotist

Hey guys,

yeah I'm 15, so what? Aren't 15 yr olds allowed to be interested in astronomy? What makes me incapable of lifting a 14" OTA? I'm 6 ft! That's probably taller than a number of you!
Enough of that! How would y'all transport a 1400 HD and the rest of the mount?

We are just trying to help, it's also not about outright physical strength but the challenge of the extremely long focal length as well as well as other factors of running a big tube.

I think it's great you are into astronomy at 15, at 15 I was just into girls

but I do think you are biting off more than you can chew.

I'm not sure how much $$ a c14 is - I'm sure it's not cheap. I think you'd get more enjoyment out of a twin setup with say a 11" celestron SCT with a really nice fast refractor as a piggyback (or side by side) scope for astrophotography on a equatorial mount. Prob end up similar $$.

Whatever you choose, good luck.

Don't forget you'll also want some good eyepieces as well.

renormalised (Carl) · #66 24-09-2010, 11:07 AM

It's not just the weight and the height of the tripod, either. A C14 will be very awkward to handle....it's a big tube and you really need to get a good hold on it to make sure it's safe when you mount it. That means you'll have to have your tripod at the lowest practicable height so that you don't overdo it when trying to put it on.

For some here who have said "Oh he's a big lad, he'll manage"... Yeah, that might be the case. However, try holding 20-22kgs at head height for any longer than a minute or more. And hold it rock steady. It's not that he can't lift it, it's the possibility that holding such a heavy weight, trying to balance it and mount it at the same time, he could do himself some damage if it slips or whatever. If his Dad is going to be there to help him, or one of his mates, that's fine. But by himself will be risky. It's all too easy to rip shoulder and back muscles and damage ligaments/tendons trying to handle heavy weights. He would be much better off to buy it and mount it permanently. He'll get a lot more use out of it if he does.

But, if he wants to get it, then good on him. It'll be a fabulous scope. Lucky for him he doesn't have to buy it over here though!!!!. You'd be saving up for a month of Sundays to afford one!!!!.

Steffen · #67 24-09-2010, 01:46 PM

For that sort of money I know I'd be having a lot more fun with a nice 5" refractor (like, say, a WO FLT132) on a CGEM or EQ6 mount. There's still going to be enough left to buy a 14" or 16" Dob for the aperture fever

User-friendliness in setup and handling has a huge impact on the net use and enjoyment one gets out of a scope. Even though a 14" SCT could show you heaps it won't if you can only be bothered to set it up three times a year. It takes a lot of commitment to set up a scope as big as this whenever there promises to be a clear night.

Cheers
Steffen

Paul Haese · #68 24-09-2010, 02:52 PM

You guys are making out like a C14 is a monster of a scope. It takes just seconds to lift and slip the scope on the saddle. One does not have to lift it straight up over ones head and hold it there like a weight lifter in the olympic final. It just needs to be at shoulder height initially, which is quite frankly a pretty easy lift, then you can rest it on your shoulder before sliding into position. I own one of these tubes and I can tell you from direct experience this is not as hard as you think. If you own a 14" Meade then that is considerably heavier than the C14 and comparing the weight of the Meade unit to the Celestron unit is not possible. Even comparing a Meade fork with a Celestron Tube is ridiculous. Give the lad a break and some credit for thinking this through.

Besides a C14 can be left setup outside in the back yard if the yard is secure. I do this and I know Damian Peach does it. Not many people are going to try to knock it off because of the shear size.

I just read a lot of negativity about what this lad has got in mind.

Paul Haese · #69 24-09-2010, 03:11 PM

BTW, I love the youtube videos. That just goes to show how easy it is to mount a C14. It is really funny too. Well done to the author of those videos.

Outbackmanyep · #70 24-09-2010, 03:19 PM

Go for it!
If i had my way, i'd get a 14" Celestron at the drop of a hat!

What you do with it is all part of the learning curve of amateur astronomy!

BlackWidow (Mardy) · #71 24-09-2010, 03:41 PM

Wasn't this forum Subject about a Question that was asked??

What makes Celestron better than Meade?

Now it's about who has the biggest.
Who is the STRONG MAN
Who is the Child that dosn't know enough
Let me tell you what I have got at home!
I know you want advice, but let me tell you I know it all. FIGJAM

That poor Guy that just wanted our thoughts on a brand name purchase, and has now been shown that some Astronomers on this forum are just in this to compeate with each other. This is the reason that I tend to keep away from clubs and groups. You can get some good information, opinions and meet some great people. However you can get alot more than you ever asked for or wanted to know.. We seem to have alot of Forum Highjackers on this site and original topics are often lost.

That's my thoughs. I was interested originaly in what others thought about the brand question. Wow lost intrest now.

Cheers
Mardy

DavidTrap (David) · #72 24-09-2010, 04:02 PM

Yes Mardy,

The thread has gone somewhat off topic, but there have been follow-up posts by the original poster, and reference made to other threads started by the original poster.

DT

Steffen · #73 24-09-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

I just read a lot of negativity about what this lad has got in mind.

Warnings tend to be negative, by their very nature. It's just that a number of people feel some degree of warning is in order here. Nobody it demonising the C14 or your choice of owning one. However, size shock and big scopes lingering unused in garages is rather common. I think the best advice given in this thread is "see and try for yourself before buying".

Cheers
Steffen.

taxman (Matt) · #74 24-09-2010, 05:05 PM

Anyone else see the irony of posting this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackWidow

Wasn't this forum Subject about a Question that was asked??

What makes Celestron better than Meade?

Now it's about who has the biggest.
Who is the STRONG MAN
Who is the Child that dosn't know enough
Let me tell you what I have got at home!
I know you want advice, but let me tell you I know it all. FIGJAM

That poor Guy that just wanted our thoughts on a brand name purchase, and has now been shown that some Astronomers on this forum are just in this to compeate with each other. This is the reason that I tend to keep away from clubs and groups. You can get some good information, opinions and meet some great people. However you can get alot more than you ever asked for or wanted to know.. We seem to have alot of Forum Highjackers on this site and original topics are often lost.

That's my thoughs. I was interested originaly in what others thought about the brand question. Wow lost intrest now.

Cheers
Mardy

mozzie (Peter) · #75 24-09-2010, 06:07 PM

yep a bit of advise and it ends up getting heated

i love astronomy and so does bart if hes after a c-14 good on him go for it.i would have loved a 14"scope at the age of 16

PeterM · #76 24-09-2010, 07:44 PM

Bart Ok, I think you are for real and not just trying to promo Celestron.
You are excited just as I was your age. But your Question is double edged making a statement of fact that simply isn't correct and completely debatable to the point where nobody wins. "What makes Celestron better than Meade" - nothing, just as if it were "What make Meade better than Celestron" again nothing. 14inch in either is an absolutely FAB scope period and that is a fact. Horses for courses, a lot of jealous people out there, including me (and this will get a response I bet) and yes a lot of good advice also. But Haesey has hit it on the head (yet again) full stop in my opinion. Get the 14inch, great for you if you have the bucks. You will not regret it and all the negatives are very, very easily overcome.... with more $$$$$ (not an issue by the sound of it).
Good luck, you have it all ahead of you and you are light years ahead of where I was 37 years ago. Don't discount a supernova search programme, you will have the goods to make your mark here with the right imager and I would be very happy to assist you in anyway.

PeterM.

Hypnotist (Bartholomew) · #77 25-09-2010, 06:37 AM

Paul,

Thanks so much for being so supportive and so very helpful. It's great to see that at least one person can give me useful and good tips out here in comparison to others who are just, how should I put it,...envious. Thanks again Paul!

It's great to see so many different opinions, but aren't we in the first place supposed to be a group of guys (and girls) who share the same interest in astronomy, everyone in their very own way?! I don't think we should come here to express prejudice or envy

and gripe about other peoples' decisions. We're here to be constructive and to share the joy of astronomy!!!

Clear skies
Bart

Hypnotist (Bartholomew) · #78 25-09-2010, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

Bart Ok, I think you are for real and not just trying to promo Celestron.
You are excited just as I was your age. But your Question is double edged making a statement of fact that simply isn't correct and completely debatable to the point where nobody wins. "What makes Celestron better than Meade" - nothing, just as if it were "What make Meade better than Celestron" again nothing. 14inch in either is an absolutely FAB scope period and that is a fact. Horses for courses, a lot of jealous people out there, including me (and this will get a response I bet) and yes a lot of good advice also. But Haesey has hit it on the head (yet again) full stop in my opinion. Get the 14inch, great for you if you have the bucks. You will not regret it and all the negatives are very, very easily overcome.... with more $$$$$ (not an issue by the sound of it).
Good luck, you have it all ahead of you and you are light years ahead of where I was 37 years ago. Don't discount a supernova search programme, you will have the goods to make your mark here with the right imager and I would be very happy to assist you in anyway.

PeterM.

Peter
Thank you too. I wish others could be just as encouraging as you've turned out to be!

Regards
Bart

Omaroo (Chris Malikoff) · #79 25-09-2010, 07:27 AM

What??? You come on here and post (amongst many similar statements in other threads) a blanket rhetorical "question" that essentially states "Celestron are better than Meade, now why?". I sense troll here, and I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but your language doesn't suggest to me a modern 15-year old's writing style. Were you expecting or hoping that everyone was going to agree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypnotist

Thanks so much for being so supportive and so very helpful. It's great to see that at least one person can give me useful and good tips out here in comparison to others who are just, how should I put it,...envious.

How do you think that owners of large Meade SCT's, and there are many of them here who are incredibly happy to have one, feel about that being said? Your statement flies directly in their faces and you'd be right in feeling a little of their heat. Your "research" has uncovered a couple of Meade-o-philes and you're happy as Larry to believe it all and post in agreeance. I'd like to know why you posted this question in the first place. If it wasn't to provoke reaction, you're having yourself on.

Jealous? You've been given advice by people who have all been posting on here for years. I've not seen anything to suggest that anyone is "envious" of you and trying to tear you down. Everyone has given you their reason for their advice and you're not happy to take it at face value and label it "jealousy". Golly, most of us have been there done that with large SCT's and for our own various reasons decided that it was a wrong move. That's pretty presumptuous don't you think? Paul and others have these scopes and we're all proud of what they accomplish with them. This doesn't for a second mean that the rest of us want to go down the same road as they. Plenty are taking other, equally expensive routes with high-end refractors for the reasons they've given. You're in the USA, so the 14" EdgeHD and mount package retails for around $10k. That isn't exactly an expensive scope. On top of that, at least you don't have to pay for international freight like we Australians do.

Quote:

I wish others could be just as encouraging as you've turned out to be!

No-one here wants anything more than for you to be happy with your new aquisition - but please don't go telling others, by inference or otherwise, that their choice of scope is inferior because you choose to say so. If you truly are 15, you really can't have the experience to say that. If you want encouragement, then maybe try not offending those you ask a question of. By inferring that some of us are "jealous" of you, I suspect that you'll be taken less seriously that you'd otherwise hoped.

Alchemy (Clive) · #80 25-09-2010, 08:45 AM

The original question was somewhat provocative.

Here's my opinion.

You're buying a telescope based on advertising hype. You want the biggest and by some flashy advertising is the best ( let me assure you it's not and neither is meade)

You haven't to my small revision stated your desired use. Imaging, visual, scientific.

Your scope scope should be tailored to your needs, your situation and with a potential to the future.

None of hese have been stated.

I can say as an imager it would not be my first imaging scope.

If you want a 14 inch scope and someone will buy it for you half your luck..... But I can't say it's going to be the best buy for you.