Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > General Chat
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #41  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:29 PM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Just had a thought....remember the pic of the ICBM in the boost phase of its flight and the subsequent phenomenon....what if this was done deliberately. A test of some sort.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-12-2009, 08:53 PM
thunderchildobs
Registered User

thunderchildobs is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ipswich, Qld, Aust
Posts: 636
The 21st Century version of crop circles.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:05 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by renormalised View Post
Just had a thought....remember the pic of the ICBM in the boost phase of its flight and the subsequent phenomenon....what if this was done deliberately. A test of some sort.
Hi Carl,

By what one can read online about the development of the Bulava, the developers could probably only
wish the spectacular results of the failure were deliberate

The head of research for the program was once dismissed or quit and then subsequently re-instated.

This weapon has apparently failed at least seven times in twelve tests.

Undoubtedly systems such as the US Space Based Infrared System (SBIRS) or the older Defence Support Program
(DSP), which are used to provide an early warning of ballistic missile launches along with other US military assets
would have monitored the launch and subsequent failure very closely. With that in mind, there are probably personnel
at facilities such as at the Buckley Air Force Base in Colorado, or similar bases,monitoring the flight and who know exactly what path
the vehicle took.

Given how 'perfect' the spiral appears, perhaps it failed at very high altitudes, above the atmosphere and wind which
otherwise would have dissipated the plume.

Last edited by gary; 10-12-2009 at 09:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:59 PM
BerrieK's Avatar
BerrieK
Registered User

BerrieK is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orange
Posts: 650
Nah.

The Hypno-toad from Futurama was getting ready for a night's observing (patch over one eye to preserve dark adaption, aaarh) when he was interrupted and became visible (okay, just his one uncivered eye became visible) to all Norwegens who had been chewing Khat recently imported from the Netherlands. Hence the one big swirly thingy in the sky.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-12-2009, 10:00 PM
kustard's Avatar
kustard (Simon)
Great Sage == Heaven

kustard is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 735
Cool stuff

Be interesting to hear what they finally make of it.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-12-2009, 10:01 PM
Inmykombi's Avatar
Inmykombi (Geoff)
They aint just doubles :o

Inmykombi is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Gosford NSW Australia
Posts: 2,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjnettie View Post
It's one of those big round swirly things from Red Dwarf. LOL

LOL.

I'll go with the huge round swirly things from Red Dwarf.... or perhaps the Hole in the Ozone layer has popped open for good......We better wear loads of 30 plus tomorrow....
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 10-12-2009, 10:17 PM
DavidU's Avatar
DavidU (Dave)
Like to learn

DavidU is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: melbourne
Posts: 4,835
It looks like it is an upper stage of a Chinese rocket launched earlier in the morning for polar orbit. As it spins liquid fuel is sprayed out (white spiral)that is lit by the morning sun, and the blue is the last of the burnt fuel. In the video you can see a distant smoke plume that is dissipating in the distance.
Certainly a spectacular sight.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 10-12-2009, 11:08 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,999
One possible expanation posted on YouTube

Norway Cloud Spiral - Simulation of possible explanation. Video and
commentary here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8i5EfmYU4
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 10-12-2009, 11:24 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,999
The official news agency of Russia, ITAR-TASS has an official confirmation
from the Russian Defense Ministry that there was a third stage engine failure
during the launch of the Bulava missile from the nuclear submarine the Dmitry Donskoi
(spelling sometimes also Dmitri Donskoy)

Story here - http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....6373&PageNum=0

In another related story today, ITAR-TASS also reports today that the US and Russia have "coordinated the main
part of the text of a new agreement to replace the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START-1)".

START-1 was set to expire on 5 Dec "but currently remains in force indefinitely pending agreement
on a successor, since Russia and the United States failed to reach agreement on a new pact until the deadline."


The story goes on to report that Russian President, Dmitry Medvedev on March 17th 2009
"signalled that Russia would begin a “large- scale” rearmament and renewal of Russia’s nuclear arsenal. President Medvedev
accused NATO of pushing ahead with expansion near Russian borders and ordered that this rearmament commence in
2011 with increased army, naval, and nuclear capabilities."


Full text here - http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....4849&PageNum=0

So the accidental fireworks display seen over Norway could be viewed as a side-effect of a bigger show going on.

Last edited by gary; 10-12-2009 at 11:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:37 AM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Gary, sounds like the old Cold War sabre rattling is back in business again, from what you've posted there. When will they ever learn!!!!

Sounds like they're trying to get the Bulava to be the counterpoint missile to the Trident and it's not working out so well for them. One wonders when the Americans and others will start developing new systems themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:44 AM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidU View Post
It looks like it is an upper stage of a Chinese rocket launched earlier in the morning for polar orbit. As it spins liquid fuel is sprayed out (white spiral)that is lit by the morning sun, and the blue is the last of the burnt fuel. In the video you can see a distant smoke plume that is dissipating in the distance.
Certainly a spectacular sight.
I doubt it's a Chinese rocket, David. Too close to start with...that boost phase plume doesn't look more than a couple of hundred k's away, which would put it in the White Sea, off the Kola Peninsula. Which is where the Dmitry Donskoi is based (Arkhangel'sk). China is another 6000 miles away.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-12-2009, 05:58 AM
Analog6's Avatar
Analog6 (Odille)
Registered User

Analog6 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Glenorchy, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 430
I liked the reports that said it was a wormhole and the aliens are coming! Great effect though.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-12-2009, 11:06 AM
Vartigy's Avatar
Vartigy
Making the Kessel run...

Vartigy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Didn't Obama fly into Norway that night?
Or possibly one of the many airliners that did.

Looks like a high altitude dump of toilet waste, when in fact the toilet got blocked up so they just ejected the whole thing.
As it came spiralling back to earth, the litres and litres of waste spiraled out, freezing as it fell through the atmosphere (extreme cold), and the blue streak landing to earth could only be the toilet burning up as it re-enters.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-12-2009, 11:21 AM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Smile

Quote:
and the blue streak landing to earth could only be the toilet burning up as it re-enters.
No, planes don't fly high enough for that. That blue streak was the bottle of toilet duck that accidentally fell out of the plane at the same time the toilet was dumped

Last edited by renormalised; 11-12-2009 at 11:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-12-2009, 11:28 AM
jjjnettie's Avatar
jjjnettie (Jeanette)
Registered User

jjjnettie is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Monto
Posts: 16,741
No-one thought of North Korea did they.
They've been stretching their muscles of late too.
The capability of their long range missiles scares the crap out of me.

(yes, I know it was the Russians that caused this particular episode)
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-12-2009, 12:03 PM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjnettie View Post
No-one thought of North Korea did they.
They've been stretching their muscles of late too.
The capability of their long range missiles scares the crap out of me.

(yes, I know it was the Russians that caused this particular episode)
Their missiles don't have the throw weight yet to carry a nuke. Even if they did, no matter how wacky they may appear to be, they're not that stupid that they'd risk total annihilation by being "brave" enough to launch one.

Even if they felt threatened (like they always say they are).
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:27 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,999
Quote:
Originally Posted by renormalised View Post
Gary, sounds like the old Cold War sabre rattling is back in business again, from what you've posted there. When will they ever learn!!!!

Sounds like they're trying to get the Bulava to be the counterpoint missile to the Trident and it's not working out so well for them. One wonders when the Americans and others will start developing new systems themselves.
Hi Carl,

In 1999, the United States passed into public law what is called the "National
Missile Defence Act". In a nutshell it states that the policy of the United States is
to deploy a missile defense system capable of defending the United States
against a limited ballistic missile attack as soon as technologically possible.

This system is known as the "Ballistic Missile Defence System" (BDMS)
and is a successor to the Reagan era "Strategic Defence Initiative" (SDI), better
known as the "Star Wars program".

What Bulava is mostly about is a delivery system for the Russians that will
circumvent the BDMS defence shield. It attempts to do this in a number
of ways, including by providing shielding and hardening against a variety
of countermeasures including laser strike, EM pulse and nuclear blast
as well as adds randomness to its flight path by pulsing its engines
in the final stages of flight before delivering MIRV warheads to the targets.

Each of the six to ten MIRV's it delivers provide a yield of up to 150KT each
and each Typoon-or newer Borey class submarines can carry up to sixteen missiles.

Given the Little Boy bomb used on Hiroshima had a yield of about 15kT,
then one submarine can potentially deliver the equivalent of about 1,600
Hiroshima "blasts".

In 2004, then president Putin claimed that Bulava warheads would be able to
breach any new ballistic missile defence system.

One potential point for future tensions is the Arctic region. In September this
year, two German cargo ships carrying construction materials made history
by traveling between Korea and the Netherlands via the Arctic route
as a result of the thawing ice. This cuts thousands of miles off the trip.
See New York Times article here -
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/sc...11passage.html

On 10th November this year, the Vice Chief of Naval Operations for the
US Department of the Navy issued a memorandum called the "Navy Arctic
Roadmap". In a nutshell, it states that since the Earth's climate is changing
and that the Arctic ice is thawing, as a result this new Arctic sea route is of
strategic and economic importance to the United States and that they need
to put in place key objectives now.

As the roadmap states, this includes the goal to "project a sovereign United
States maritime presence"
and to "cooperate with other Arctic nations to address
likely issues from increased shipping".


The roadmap acknowledges that "While the United States has stable relationships
with other Arctic nations, the changing environment and competition for resources
may contribute to increasing tension, or, conversely, provide opportunities for
cooperative solutions".


The Roadmap document, which is unclassified, can be found here -
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/da...p-nov-2009.pdf

In 2001, Russia made a submission to the UN to extend the continental shelf of
Russia, that is the sea-floor, to extend into large parts of the Arctic.

The Russians have stated that the new Arctic sea-route will hopefully bring them
greater economic benefits as international carriers begin to use it.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 11-12-2009, 01:55 PM
renormalised's Avatar
renormalised (Carl)
No More Infinities

renormalised is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Townsville
Posts: 9,698
Like I said Gary...when will they ever learn.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-12-2009, 02:39 PM
bloodhound31
Registered User

bloodhound31 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,628
Stargate SG1 is a great show. Sam, Jack, Tealc and Daniel are household names around here...hey Sam, do you think you could blow up a sun for us?

According to my calculations...yes.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 11-12-2009, 04:45 PM
Vartigy's Avatar
Vartigy
Making the Kessel run...

Vartigy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 161
Rodney: Hey!... She only did it because she stole my work!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 04:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement