Would you take out a loan

[AlexN]

Trevor - Couldnt agree more... I have the advantage of not having to worry about what a wife would think, As I'm not married... I don't have to support a family, as I don't have one...

Simon - Good to see another Gen-X fella on the block...

Zapz - Whilst I agree.. A lot of people do think borrowing is a great idea until they have to pay it back... That said, Last time I borrowed money, I was very happy.. I've been paying that loan for the past couple of years, and still think it was the best course of action at the time.. And im pretty sure that land appreciates, so in 30 years time, my property out in the bush should be worth more than I pay for it, and perhaps even more than I paid for it and the observatory + equipment.. yeah, I know, stupid human making an idiotic mistake... What can I say, I'm only human..

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

I guy loves fishing it's his hobby he goes and borrows for a decent boat why not do the same for a hobby you love

You go out a spend $30000 on a car which in 10 years will be worth virtually nothing I say buy a cheaper a car and in 10 years it'll still be worth nothing

Often we procrastinate because we feel guilty spending large amounts while our wife's or husbands do not share our passion

My point is that a lot of people will get into debt for frivolous things yet won't for a hobby, which to many of us is a lifelong passion unlike many other hobbies that do fade over time

Trevor it sounds like your mind is made up and you just want people to agree with you

Each to their own. I wont go into debt for a car or "frivolous things" so I certainly wont for a hobby.

To AlexN: Your plan sounds like the fulfilling of a dream. I wish you luck with it

[space oddity]

Another vote for no way to borrowing for an observatory.Hobby type things I always pay for with any surplus cash- usually second hand and I build things myself whenever I can . Saved I reckon 35k doing the finishing touches for our house extention several years ago. Some tradesmen try to rip you off. No way I would borrow money to be ripped off. If you can do it yourself, you will save 90% of the cost and have the satisfaction of doing it yourself - if you are a scrounger like myself,you can save 95% and so get your observatory for probably 5k + scope + elbow grease.

[Shep]

I wouldnt borrow money for a hobby, I just make do and enjoy the things I can afford. If you tie it into your house though I dont really see a prob with that. Going into the country to do it though and having grand plans about what that property will be worth or how it will make you money is crap planning and too much dreaming imho. Make sure you cover all your bases and think of all scenarios. Did you say the property is out bush about 300km's out, will there be work there and will you be able to live out there long term, and also if you want out are you going to be able to sell the property easily or are you going to be stuck with something that takes 10 years to sell. Its kinda one thing to get all dreamy about living in the bush and just doing your thing but you should really do a try before you buy scenario and just rent a place out there for a good 6 months before you commit to buying anything. Also not having a wife and children now - things can change real fast if you meet someone spesh so you should leave room for random happenings in your planning.

[TrevorW]

Hey Geoff I'm not actually but would consider it depending on the circumstances

However what I'm saying is in comparison to others who pursue their hobbies we as a group appear to be quiet stoic in our approach

[Ian Robinson]

No.

Telescope gear or camera gear are things I wont borrow money or use the plastic fantastic nevernever card to buy. It simply doesn't have priority for me .

I save for it , and if I don't have the money or means to buy it, I don't, simple as that.

I am debt free now and plan on staying that way unless an real emergency happens.

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

An interesting question...

I took a loan for the purchase of my house but otherwise avoid debt...cars I pay for in cash and while I regularly use credit cards for convienence (beats carrying a wad of grrenbacks) I do pay the balance off in full each month.

While I understand the comments on wealth versus happiness and agree that they are not the same thing...I think the big issue for me in this is that money borrowed t buy things always makes the price of things much bigger due to the interest payments...

Depending on the interest rate on the loan you might find that the actual cost of the item might be a lot higher than you think. As I pay back my house loan I try and understand how much of my monthly payment goes to pay back prinicpal and how much goes to interest...it can be scary to realize how much more money I pay over the life of the loan.

Debt used properly can be a useful tool for accumulating assets but I would not go into debt for my hobby (astro or otherwise)...

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Guys we are always borrowing for this or that whether it be cars, boats, you name it but how many of us would borrow a significant amount to set up our ideal observatory

$10k, 20K or even more remember I'm talking about equipment that could last a lifetime

Be honest with yourself I've pondered the idea but never have

It's your money, your decision. If you are that keen in astronomy and you can afford it then go for it by any mean. Enjoy. Personaly, I wouldn't because to me it's a hobby and I only spend very little in it and do with what I've got. I have other interests. But that's me, everybody's different.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

I think that Marc just hit on something in his reply. "I have other interests".

I, probably like you Alex, consider astronomy one of my main interests in life. In this regard we are different, in a way, to those here who have stated that it's not as important to them which is one of the reasons why they don't or won't borrow on their hobbies. With all due respect to them, their priorities are undoubtedly different. I don't think for a minute that they're saying "don't" to you, they're just saying that they themselves wouldn't. One "priority" that a friend of mine has is improving their back yard. They spend thousands on the right pergola, lawns and garden. They also spend huge amounts on interior decoration. To me - what a complete waste of money, time and effort. They can't understand why I'd spend $20k on a mount.

I am usually willing to stretch both the budget and borrowings a fair bit to pursue this stuff. My hobbies (several) are incredibly important to me. They keep me sane and provide me with enormous enjoyment and release. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it if you can comfortably afford the repayments without compromising your living standards. I recently lost a wife - you've never had one. It's a great time to do it if you ever are. I have no family so I don't have to provide for them now or in the future. Would I rather the family? Yes, I would, but that didn't happen. I'm lucky to have a pretty reasonable salary, so maybe my situation is different to yours... although you never know what's around the corner tomorrow. Until I sort out my own finances, after the breakup, I'm on hold for a little while. It won't last forever. It's a bit of a lottery, so be willing to accept what comes if it all goes end up.

You can tie yourself down to a safety net for just so much of your life. How damn boring. Enjoy it while you have it and can afford it. You can't be living if you're scared of consequence. Just don't bank on being able to turn it all into liquid assets when required. If you can live with that then it's up to you - entirely. As far as borrowings on your "astro" house go, remember you're paying off your mortgage for 25 years or so. Maybe separate the loans and pay off the house and obs via a mortgage and instruments as quickly as you can on another. A low interest rate per annum on a mortgage is great, so just remember that there are a lot of "annums" and your gear will constantly devalue over time.

[Barrykgerdes]

Perhaps I am lucky but I have never had to borrow to support my hobbies, other than the short term of the no interest period of a credit card.

The cost of my hobby equipment which to date I have spent something like $600000, adjusted current cost of the items, over 60 years on equipment that would be classed to most as "toys" is about $10000 per year, the amount spent by many on beer and cigarettes.

As for the realisable value I keep an inventory of all assets and write them off over 10 years so if I could get $10000 for all these items I would be very surprised.

Barry

[matt]

Originally Posted by AlexN

Simon - Good to see another Gen-X fella on the block...

I'm an X-er too, Alex There are plenty of us here at IIS.

At 24....I'm fairly certain you fall into the Y category.

At least according to Wiki and a few other sources I've taken a look at.

They tend to agree that Gen X extended from the early-to-mid 1960s to the late 1970s.

So...young man...grab that credit card and spend...spend...spend!!!!!!!!!!

[White Rabbit]

Not uless I wanted to be single....very very quickly.

[matt]

[Ric]

I have toyed with the idea but unless my wife wins the jackpot lottery it will remain a pipe dream.

The more likely option is that I will take a small loan to buy the materials to build my own roll off roof observatory. I'd reckon around $2000 would see a posh setup running on solar power.

Cheers

[mac (Matt)]

This is an interesting thread.

I have a few hobbies on the go... photography, guitar, RC helicopters, alcohol appreciation, etc... but astronomy is by far the most potentially expensive of them all. Which is why I'll have to wait for a Lotto win before I'll buy my perfect observatory setup. Or at least pay off my house first (which won't be for another 15-20 years).

But I can understand the urge to spend up big on a good setup. When I was 24 years old, I spent $35k (with a loan) on a near-new Ford XR8. Mate, it looked gorgeous and put a smile on my face every time I drove it. But then the legendary reliability problems of the Aussie V8s started to occur. A transmission rebuild, failed warrants of fitness (the car was only three years old), etc. The financial burden forced me to sell it after 12 months. I only got $25k for it, but still owed $28k on the loan, so I then had to pay back the extra $3k by getting a cash advance from my credit card!

It was the worst financial mistake of my life. But I lived to tell the story... and I'll always have the memory of driving that 5 litre beast around town.

[PCH (Paul)]

Never, - not if I live to be a million. I am a capitalist so-and-so, and am happy to admit it.

I recognise that there are three forms of debt. Bad debt - money borrowed for holidays, cars and assorted 'wants'. A very silly plan imho. Then there's OK debt which is money borrowed to purchase your house. Everybody has to have somewhere to live, so this is acceptable. And then there's good debt. To me, good debt means money borrowed to buy appreciating assets. That's what I consider to be a sound financial strategy.

There will be those who say - "you can't tell what the future holds". This is very true, and I admit I can only talk generally. Let's face it, all our plans fall a bit flat if the world goes to war or some other major catastrophy looms. However, I prefer to plan for a long life and the means to live it with choices.

Cheers

[Zaps]

Originally Posted by PCH

I recognise that there are three forms of debt. Bad debt - money borrowed for holidays, cars and assorted 'wants'. A very silly plan imho. Then there's OK debt which is money borrowed to purchase your house. Everybody has to have somewhere to live, so this is acceptable. And then there's good debt.

Debt is just debt. The aim is to avoid it where possible, and eliminate it as soon as possible when being in debt is unavoidable. Debt used to be considered shameful.