Neck problems...

Shep · #1 10-08-2009, 06:44 PM

This might sound silly but i wondered how everyones necks go looking into the scopes, I have had a neck injury and while it doesnt bother me on a daily basis it can flare up from repetitive straining. I would really love to get a scope and see how i go but i thought i would ask around first, if its a problem for others i guess i'll just have to be content looking at astromony books and online instead of with my own scope, i wouldnt want to buy one only to have it sit in the cupboard for that reason.

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #2 10-08-2009, 06:56 PM

Welcome to IIS Shep,
You'll be better off with a Newtonian style scope on a dobsonian mount. The eyepiece will be at a more convenient height. Pair it with an adjustable observing stool and I reckon you'll be just fine.

Shep · #3 10-08-2009, 06:59 PM

Ah COOL! Thanks so much for replying! Those terms are a bit over my head still but i sure will look into them!

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #4 10-08-2009, 07:03 PM

Click on this link and scroll down to the bottom and you'll see a fine selection of Dobsonian scopes.
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm
They're easy to set up and use too.

Mike21 (Michael) · #5 10-08-2009, 07:31 PM

Hi Shep,

Can't even guess what your real name is, your profile is kinda devoid of info. I was a bit sheepish in the beginning too (I'm not suggesting that is why you've called yourself Shep). This is actually the first time that I'm mentioning my profession on IIS. I am a chiropractor.

Over the last year I've collected one cheap version of every type of scope. Having done so, here are my findings. Firstly, I will admit that it doesn't take someone with my professional knowledge to reach my conclusions and I hope that others post their opinions too!

Firstly; avoid astrophotography with a dSLR through a refractor pointed at zenith. I shan't go into too much detail since you haven't even bought a scope yet, but unless your name is Shep Houdini, you're stuffed.

Ideally you want a setup with the eyepiece at face level when standing and the capacity to easily rotate the focuser. I don't want to leave you behind with jargon, nor do I want to fill the website up with lengthly posts. Feel free to email me if it gets too much.

I advise against reflectors on a tripod. Reflectors on a dobsonian base are good (and Dobs are good for beginners) if the eyepiece is at face level. I have a 200X1200mm Dob and it's commonly a bit of a stoop. I imaging a taller Dob would be spot on unless you are a dwarf. I have not used a larger Dob, finances prevent it.

Long tubes on a tripod are also a no-no since the length of the tube caused too much variation in eyepiece (EP from now on) height between horizon and zenith.

Short tubes on a tripod are excellent. This gives you two options. A short refractor or a cassegrain/compound telescope.

Therefore you can have any scope you want, you just have to be selective about the mount. Short refractors and compounds on a tripod with either a EQ or Alt/Az mount or reflectors on a Dob.

The above options will make astronomy available to the stiffest neck but an adjustable viewing chair will assist greatly too. At this point I have to depart slightly from speaking from experience because I've never owned one, but I'm sure they are very useful.

Lastly, another recommended starting point is a pair of binoculars on a nice tripod. I reckon they are a great place to start; not everyone agrees with me. The only part of the sky out of range with this set up is (and this'll sound boring) the zenith.

I expect a barrage of questions from this. But my main point is to not let your neck prevent you from studying our beautiful skies.

Shep · #6 10-08-2009, 08:03 PM

Thanks Mike, I added my name to my details lol, Thanks for all the info, im still just going through some of the older posts and getting my bearings with the lingo. I'll be sure to post my questions once i read a bit more, I'm sure everyone gets sick of newbies coming in with the same questions all the time

Is there a place where people sell there used stuff as they upgrade?

sheeny (Al) · #7 10-08-2009, 08:03 PM

Good advice here so far, Shep.

You aren't from Oberon are you???

(I just happen to know a Shep or 2... EDIT: ah, I've just seen your latest post... add a new Shep to the list

)

Either a DOB, or an SCT/Maksutov on a tripod would be good options. A diagonal will help your neck with an SCT or Maksutov. BTW if you get a dob that is too low, you can make a box to sit it on to raise it to a better height

.

An adjustable observing chair will probably be a good investment, regardless of what sort of scope you get, as they will provide a good range of adjustment.

I suspect the scope may be the least of your problems... the finderscope may prove to be a bigger challenge. A straight through finderscope will be a pain near zenith no matter what scope you have, and a right angle finder can be a bit more awkward to use but will be better on your neck at high altitudes. If your neck is really bad I would recommend 2 finderscopes... a right angle one to use near zenith and say a Telrad or red dot finder to use at low altitude.

As for binoculars, yes they are a great way to start, but you have 3 options to save your neck:

Build a front surface mirror mount that will allow you to look down at 90° to the actual direct you are seeing (I'm sure someone has posted details on IIS somewhere);
Build or buy a binocular chair... that's a swivel chair that reclines and has (usually) large binoculars mounted conveniently to look through; or
Use a reclining lounge or a blanket on the ground and lay down to observe (sleeping bag to keep warm, warm drink in a camelback)

A bad neck shouldn't eliminate you from astronomy

. We'll help you solve it

. (It's all done with mirrors

).

Al.

Blue Skies (Jacquie) · #8 10-08-2009, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheeny

I suspect the scope may be the least of your problems... the finderscope may prove to be a bigger challenge. A straight through finderscope will be a pain near zenith no matter what scope you have, and a right angle finder can be a bit more awkward to use but will be better on your neck at high altitudes. If your neck is really bad I would recommend 2 finderscopes... a right angle one to use near zenith and say a Telrad or red dot finder to use at low altitude.

I was thinking about this too and was going to recommend a right-angle finder, or an erect image finder. Some of the latter have 45 degree diagonals on the back but that is still enough an angle that you don't have to get right behind it. With a right angle finder the image is flipped two ways, upside down and then back to front, and it can be a bit of a mental challenge to turn things around to work out which way to move the scope. An erect image finder would give you a right way up view of the sky. The average straight-through finder gives you an upside down image, btw.

I also recommend getting a chair, they make it so much more comfortable to view. Dobs can be placed on a small stool or specially made table, they don't have to stay on the ground and that extra foot in height can make a big difference.

Best thing to do, as always, is get down to a local club meeting and try out other peoples scopes. That will give you a feel for what you like and can cope with.

Mike21 (Michael) · #9 10-08-2009, 08:31 PM

I have no intention of hijacking this thread but I've been dying to ask Sheeny where hae got the name Pocklebonk from. I also wanted to let him know that my brother and father live at the Lagoon and my brother is contracted out at CSR. Nice skys over your way!

sheeny (Al) · #10 10-08-2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike21

I have no intention of hijacking this thread but I've been dying to ask Sheeny where hae got the name Pocklebonk from. I also wanted to let him know that my brother and father live at the Lagoon and my brother is contracted out at CSR. Nice skys over your way!

At the risk of hijacking the thread...

"Pocklebonk" is what the frogs in our dams say in spring time. I'm quite sure it translates to "Wow! Look at all the stars!"

Moderators, do what you have to do if you want to.

Al.

Shep · #11 10-08-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheeny

"Pocklebonk" is what the frogs in our dams say in spring time. I'm quite sure it translates to "Wow! Look at all the stars!"

Moderators, do what you have to do if you want to.

Al.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and great advice! Thats a fantastic idea about going down the the local club meet i must see if there is one here locally in Cairns!

erick (Eric) · #12 10-08-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shep

Thats a fantastic idea about going down the the local club meet i must see if there is one here locally in Cairns!

Now you are talking! Seeing, touching (with permission!), asking questions, trying - that's what you need to do.

MrB (Simon) · #13 10-08-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shep

Is there a place where people sell there used stuff as they upgrade?

There sure is, and it's right here on Ice In Space!
IceTrade Classifieds

erick (Eric) · #14 10-08-2009, 09:55 PM

You'd better pop down to Townsville and visit Liz:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/member.php?u=3359

renormalised (Carl) · #15 10-08-2009, 10:58 PM

http://www.users.bigpond.com/jamesbak.htm

Here you go, Sarah

astro_nutt · #16 11-08-2009, 09:29 AM

Hi all!,
Mike 21 and Blue skies have hit the right note...when I started using dobs and found the extent of contorsionism required, I made to suit my height etc and came up with an alt-azimuth mount, slow-motion motoriszed gearing, tube rings so I can rotate the tube for a more comfortable angle and a right-angle finder....works well!...and makes for a more enjoyable viewing
Cheers!

Mike21 (Michael) · #17 11-08-2009, 02:46 PM

Positioning is one thing when staring into an EP for protracted periods. Warmth is another. My style of chiropractic focuses heavily on muscle tension. MUSCLES HATE GETTING COLD AND REMAINING STATIONARY! That's why getting up in the morning is so horrible. If it needs to be said, this phenomenon gets worse with age, which is why kids are up and at'em so quickly; before teenage slothness sets in anyway.

I have a neck muffle as part of my play clothes when I go out into the dark and cold evening. It's like a beanie without a top. You pull it over your head and scrunch it up about your neck; then put a beanie on too. Wear a balaklava if there are no witnesses around. That's the warmth part tackled.

Avoid getting mesmerised by the beautiful scene down the tube. Stand up and walk about every so often so that your muscle are not tortured by isometric bordom. It rests your viewing eye too.

AdrianF (Adrian) · #18 21-08-2009, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shep

This might sound silly but i wondered how everyones necks go looking into the scopes, I have had a neck injury and while it doesnt bother me on a daily basis it can flare up from repetitive straining. I would really love to get a scope and see how i go but i thought i would ask around first, if its a problem for others i guess i'll just have to be content looking at astromony books and online instead of with my own scope, i wouldnt want to buy one only to have it sit in the cupboard for that reason.

I have 3 cracks in my neck 2 in one bone and 1 in another. I find that taking regular breaks, walk away from the scope an move my neck, works. If I stayed at the scope I probably could only use it for an hour at the most.

to IIS

Adrian

AdrianF (Adrian) · #19 21-08-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shep

I'm sure everyone gets sick of newbies coming in with the same questions all the time

Never. I think I have asked questions on here that have been asked 1000's of times before and knowledgeable people on this forum will answer the same questions 1000's of times more.

Adrian

renormalised (Carl) · #20 21-08-2009, 11:40 AM

Another thing you could do to negate neck strain ( I have a neck problem as well....compacted disks and arthritis), and that is to get a camera like a GStar and connect it up to your scope. They're a specialised type of video camera for astronomy and what you can do with one (even on a dob) is have it connected to your scope and then to your laptop. Then you can view what you're looking at on the laptop screen instead of having to follow your eyepiece all over the place as you move the scope. You also have the extra benefit of being able to take piccies of the objects you're looking at as well

There's a couple of us here that have GStars (myself and Jeanette (jjj), for instance) and we'd be more than happy to help you out, should you decide to purchase one. If you want to have a look at one, goto this page... http://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/cameras.asp. Steve Massey is a really cool guy and he'll give you all the help you could ever want or need