Australian Celestron CGE prices are outrageous

[Suzy_A]

Originally Posted by Aidan Mc

...unfortunately by the time shipping is paid, plus warehousing and insurance, staff, Australian shop rents and most importantly warranty issues...

So.. You're saying that a shop in New York or LA or somewhere like that doesn't have any warehousing, insurance, staff, shop rent costs or warranty issues?

That's interesting!

[citivolus (Ric)]

Originally Posted by Suzy_A

So.. You're saying that a shop in New York or LA or somewhere like that doesn't have any warehousing, insurance, staff, shop rent costs or warranty issues?

I personally don't deny that shops anywhere have the above problems, but you are missing the main one conspicuous in its absence: Shops in the USA usually don't have exclusive distributors upstream of them in the supply chain. Manufacturers there value their sales enough to prevent this type of thing from happening.

Shops here are, for the most part, doing their best to give a fair price, but when they can't get good prices, that savings also can't be passed on to the consumer.

Eric

[spearo (Frank)]

Well for what it's worth...
I have just ordered a G11 through ATS.
I had been drooling over a C14 but because of the price differentials i think that when I upgrade it will be to a Meade 14 inch. I can still buy it from Australia and support local enterprises (which I like to do where I can).
It'll be a touch more expensive than buying straight from the US but a reasonable price increase...unlike the Celestron (which I'd go for due to weight etc but cant justify because of the price differential).
I'll be voting with my feet (or wallet) so to speak.
frank

[Stephen65]

Are you sure? My understanding was that OPT could only sell used or demonstrator Celestron gear.

[Earl (Earl White)]

Originally Posted by Aidan Mc

Hi All,

just to clarify a couple of points, unfortunately by the time shipping is paid, plus warehousing and insurance, staff, Australian shop rents and most importantly warranty issues.

The issue of having to pay for "Australian" warranty repairs always pops up.

In just about any other business, if a shop incurs a warranty cost, they'd either get the item repaired by the vendor/distributor or charge them for the repair. Maybe even replace it. The distributor should then be able to charge the vendor for warranty cost, get free parts or goods or credit on their account. They'd have something in their distribution agreement to cover this.

These sorts of costs are part of doing business on the part of the manufacturer and they factor these into the cost of their products.

It should cost a shop $0 to fix someone's stuffed telescope under warranty.

If they're not doing this, then they've got rocks in their head. They're carrying an expense that the guy down the road who didn't end up with a dodgy scope won't have.

Imagine walking into a Harvey Norman store and asking the guy why their price in a plasma had just gone up.

"Well mate, we had a guy bring back a dead TV last week and we have to cover the cost of repairing it."

Or

"Our prices are higher because we have to factor in the chance someone will bring back a TV".

Yeah right......

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Stephen65

Are you sure? My understanding was that OPT could only sell used or demonstrator Celestron gear.

I asked them six months ago and thats what they told me, so unless things have changed its used or demonstrator only; not sure about open box coz this would still carry a warranty.

Paul

[citivolus (Ric)]

Originally Posted by Zuts

I asked them six months ago and thats what they told me, so unless things have changed its used or demonstrator only; not sure about open box coz this would still carry a warranty.

Paul

Regardless of the state of the manufacturer's warranty overseas, you won't have one here. You can bet Extravision keeps track of every serial number they import for warranty reasons.

If you bypass the existing restrictions and import, you will need to be prepared for the possibility of a warranty issue and how you will cover it. That may mean having to track down a replacement circuit board or drive gear, or ship back an OTA with a cracked corrector plate... The numbers will still likely work out in your favour, but you won't be getting any next day equipment exchanges.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Credit card laws give you pretty strong protection for the first 90 - 120 days for goods not fit for sale too! It's called repudiation - which is a powerful form of short term insurance against lemons!

[Peter Ward]

I have it on good authority that at least one Losmandy distributor in Oz, sells the product and does service, EPROM upgrades and warranty repairs locally, often in a 48 hour turn-around...and yes that will cost you about 15% more than a direct import. ...what a ripoff...http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/..../winking70.gif

Peter

[Nuri]

As g__day says, there has been much discussion on this site about Australian pricing. Regarding the CGE mount, I've already said in this post:

I recently went to Los Angeles on business and bought a "display model" CGE mount from the Woodland Hills Telescope shop and brought it back with me on the return flight. You are now allowed 64KG of personal luggage to and from the US with Qantas, so there was no shipping fee... Woodland Hills also refunded the US sales tax back to my credit card when I faxed them a document I obtained from LAX airport on the way out.

Now...I could add the price of the US return flight AND accommodation in the US and STILL be under the AU price! As far as support goes, there is plenty of support on the Internet if I have problems...

[Peter Ward]

Nuri!

All I can say is you were lucky. I *work* for Qantas and get a annoyed when people post opinions as fact. Here are the Qantas baggage rules

Travel to/from USA,
US Territories, Tahiti, South America and Canada^
via the Pacific First: 2 pieces

Total dimensions* of each piece must not exceed 158cm (62in)

Business/Economy/Premium Economy: 2 pieces

Total dimensions* of the 2 pieces must not exceed 270cm (106in) with no 1 piece exceeding 158cm (62in)

32kg (70lb) per piece

64Kg???!!! not really. 2 pieces. I know G-11's (and probably GCE's) come in 4 sizable boxes and cube out to 95kg.

The handling agent was obviously in a good mood. And if they lost your boxes I suggest you have a close look at the fine print on the ticket.

BTW what did you tell Australian customs? $49.95 inc steak knives? False declarations have double duty, fines confiscation and if you really piss them off, both.

Peter

[citivolus (Ric)]

I've had Qantas ticket agents in San Francisco bounce back a bag that was 3kg over the limit, so I know they will do it. Fortunately for me my other bag was 5kg under, so I was able to make it balance out.

I can't remember, but checked baggage is covered for what, about $500 value?

[Nuri]

Peter,

The CGE mount comes in two boxes, each one under 32KG and an 11KG counterweight which I did leave behind just to be on the safe side. It was a business trip for a only a couple of days so I travelled light enough to carry my personals in a small bag in the overhead baggage. So no need to get annoyed! Like I said, if you add the plane ticket and accommodation, it's still cheaper to buy from the States.

I'm going back there again next month and I just might buy one of those new shorter FSQ106 OTAs to put on my CGE

[Nuri]

Oh, and as for customs, it was a floor model and I told them as such. I was prepared to pay customs if necessary but they opened up the tripod box and saw that it wasn't brand new and let me through. So no "$49.95 inc steak knives" or intention of a false declaration mate.

[Peter Ward]

Nuri,

I just did a quick check on Zuji to see what I could get a SYD-LAX-SYD flight for. Best I could find was around $3000 via AKL. Qantas was more like $5k

Woodland Hills website shows GCE 's to be $US3000 ea. or roughly $A3500

There is no exemption/refund on CA sales tax.

How Woodland Hills did this for you I do not know. You should have paid an extra $300 or so.

Last time I was in LA a rental car cost me about $A50 a day and accommodation at least $A175 a day. Lets assume you were there 3 days but had the car just one to get out to Woodland Hills. (nice people to deal with BTW).

Customs didn't ask to see any paper work? Amazing. They must hate me 'cause they always want to see mine. Hence again I can only assume you got lucky, have an honest face, but I would suggest most punters could expect to have shelled out another $300 as the general concession is $900 whether the goods are new or not.

Didn't have a suitcase in the hold....yep, don't blame you there! But gee most people have to, and the agent could have slugged another $120 per piece.

Total of the tape? $7795.00 (a bargain!)

Your experience while plausible, I don't think should be used as a guide for less experienced travelers.

Cheers
Peter

[Nuri]

Peter,

I think your example is for someone who has never been on a plane in their life. Who in their right mind would pay $5000 for a return trip to LAX? ...and without a rental car or accommodation!

To finally correct a few of your points for the benefit of others:

<Woodland Hills website shows GCE 's to be $US3000>
Not true. The demo stock Celestron CGE mount I'm talking about (which has been there since at least June) currently shows at $2695 but it was even cheaper when I bought it in July.

<Customs didn't ask to see any paper work? Amazing.>
Yes, they did and I showed the invoice to them. I must have an honest face.

<There is no exemption/refund on CA sales tax. How Woodland Hills did this for you I do not know. You should have paid an extra $300 or so>
I did everything by the book so no surprises there either: The salesperson at Woodland Hills (I think her name was Farah) asked me to fax her the "Bill of landing" form which I could obtain at LAX. Then at the airport, they said this form was now replaced with the "Shipper's Exportation Declaration" form which I filled out and faxed back to Farah from Sydney. She promptly refunded the sales tax back to my credit card.

<I *work* for Qantas and get a annoyed when people post opinions as fact>
Please don't get annoyed because this is not an opinion, it is fact. I persist in this thread not to try and make you believe me but to merely state a fact for the benefit of others, many of whom are also furious at Australian pricing.

Are you sure you work for Qantas and not a telescope shop in Australia?

Cheers,
Nuri

[Peter Ward]

Nuri,

I don't doubt your experience. Air fares can vary tremendously, depending on how urgently you want to travel www.zjui.com will show SYD-LAX-SYD return fares from $2k to $5k.

We've already covered the checked baggage issue. Two pieces.

You undoubtedly picked up a good deal on the mount, but WH's current new product web price is $US3k

http://telescopes.net/doc/2100/mftr/celestron/cat/7410

Farrah (I know her) at Woodland Hills did a fiddle on the CA tax...technically they need to export the goods, not the purchaser, and good luck to you that it all worked O.K. just as it did on landing in Sydney.

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4352

Customs can waive the GST, but have every right to charge it.

Yes, I do work for QF, some 20 years now in fact and go to LAX or SFO once or twice a month on average. If I had a $ for every time I've seen a case/bag/box tossed/dropped/kicked 2-3 metres on to a loader I'd be a wealthy man. My work suitcase gets repaired on a regular basis!

I also have a small business back in Sydney

Undoubtedly you have had a great win on the mount, but, I'd still recommend to others to be cautious in hoping to emulate your exploits.

Crying foul is indeed sometimes justified, but local business operators have 1/15th of the US market, hence get only small wholesale margins from US suppliers, have to pay shipping, insurance, brokerage, customs fees and charges, GST and security fees and fuel levies.

Anyway hope you enjoy the GCE...it was indeed a good deal

Peter

[rumples riot]

I would not bother explaining Yuri. I bought a solar scope from the US direct. It cost me total $6728 after visa transfer, GST and postage (there is no duty on refractors). A leading retailer here wanted $9100 at the time. A grand profit I can see, but not that amount. They would not get it for $6000, they would get it much lower than that.

If you want to play it safe, by all means go with Australian retailers. If you want to save big money, see what other options are available. Our market may be small, but that is no reason why we should pay for that. More people would buy more if the goods were at more reasonable prices. Simple economics really.

Any Yuri I am with you. I saved, you think you saved. That is all that matters.:-)

[g__day (Matthew)]

Peter,

Do many telescope shop owners value-add by example running imaging courses at a modest cost? Upskilling your audience must help your future sales? For example I'd be loathe to buy any S-BIG before I was convinced I was good enough to get value out of it. See my catch-22?

Equally when I was skilled enough I'd have to work which version best suits my sky targets, my OTAs and my skies within my budget. Again advice hear is valauable and could help future sales. You could role that into a course.

Example I have a C9.25 on a Vixen Atlux on Losmandy Dovetails. I would love to image planetary nebulae - which S-BIG would I be best to start with and why? If I where to buy a second - which should I graduated to next and why? Thirdly if I request train me to use these cameras well - how much time (3-4 nights viewing for several hours) and cost (e.g. $400 for a course) would it involve if you ran it as a class on your set-up equipment rather than mine to eliminate variables?

Thanks,

Matthew

[netwolf]

According to the Law, There should be no customs duty on Telescopes and Telescope mounts. But you do have to pay GST.

Regards
Fahim