An incnvenient truth - a global warning

[Sonia]

Earthrise
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Picture take on last of apollo missions - Apollo 17 December 11th 1972. Only picture of Earth from space that we ahve where the sun was directly behind the spacecraft so that the Earth is fully lit up.
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People think that because the Earth is so big we couldnt possibly do anything to it to cause the global warming. The most vulnerable part of Earth is the Earths atmosphere. because its so thin. Think of a globe with a coat of varnish on it, that is how thin the atmosphere is, and its thin enough for us to change it.
Solar radiation in the form of light waves pass through the atmosphere. Most of the radiation that comes from the sun that hits the Earth is absorbed and warms up. Some of it goes back into Space. Some also trapped into the atmosphere keeping it warm.
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The atmosphere is thickening due to the pollution which helps more of the infra red trapped in the atmosphere. So the atmosphere heats up worldwide.
Very little land mass is South of the Equator and most of it is in the nOrthern Hemisphere, same as vegetation. When the northern hemisphere is tilted towards the sun in spring and summer the leaves take in CO2 so the amount in global atmosphere goes down. But when it is tilted away from the sun in autumn and winter the CO2 goes up. And the level keeps going up and we are seeing the impacts.
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When there is more carbon dioxide the temp gets warmer as it traps more heat from the sun.
The ocean temperatures have also gone up, which results in hurricanes that are more deadly
Florida - Hurricane Jean sept 04
Atlantic Ocean - Frances - Sept 04
Florida - Ivan Sept 04
Also saw record outbreak of tornadoes - 2004 - 1,717 in America
Japan - New record of typhoons - 10 in 2004
First ever hurricane in the SOuth Atlantic - Brazil - MArch 04
Caribbean - hurricane emily - July 05
Hurricane Denis - Florida July 05
Worlds largest oil platform Gulf of mexico - july 05
Hurricane Katrina August 05 - as it hit the gulf of Mexico in the warm waters it got stronger..
Global warming causes more precipitation but all in big storm events as the oceans put all the evaporation up there and more falls down.
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In 2005 nature went crazy
Mumbai India July 05
37 inches of rain in 24 hours
Water levels 7 feet
Global warming also causes more draught
Lake chad has all gone
Artic and greenland are having faster impacts. The largest ice shelf in the artic cracked in half. The perma frost is thawing also. The artic ice cap has deminished 40% and 40 years. When sun rays hit the ice it melts, and as it does it also heats up the water which makes the melting faster and will keep doing so. The worldwide average temperature is about 58 degress add about 5 degrees it will be +12 at the pole.
So all the ocean currents will change.
A pool in america broke into the Atlantic into the salt water which made the gulf shut off and heat transfer stopped which caused an ice age and it took place in just 10 years time. But it cant happen again as that chunk of ice is gone.
The change is also happening in the seasons Bird arrival in switzerland 25 years ago was April 25th and the chicks hatched June 3rd. Time of the caterpillars. But 20 years of warming later the caterpillars peeked May 15th and the birds try to catch up May 25th.
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It happened rapidly.
If the west antartica ice sheet melt it would raise sea level 20 feet.
When these different types of consequences hapen it will bring food and water demand.
We have the ability to stop this by using other resources.

[Ric]

Great article Sonia and backed up with graphic photo's. It is my personal and sad opinion that we have gone to far now and there is no turning back the clock.
It is a sad fact though that the politicians still will not listen, there is a lot of talk going on here in Australia but that is because it's an election year and when that is over it will be forgotten for another four years.

Green and clean technology such as solar recieves little to no funding at all and as an example I use my own property, It cost me $4,000 to have coventional power put onto the farm, to have full solar installed and return power not being used back to the grid would have costed $44,000. In return for doing this the government would give me a rebate of $400 to help with the cost. If we had investested in this technology 20 years ago these type of costs would be comparable to conventional power and more people would use it, but as usual the governments of the day couldnt see past the next election and missed the boat totally.

I personally subscibe to the principles of Permaculture and believe that every little bit helps. Everyone can do this even in their own backyards, the trick is to think globally and act locally.
I dont believe that renouncing all technology and going back to the stone age will help either instead we need to use it wisely and to our advantage.

Cheers

[casstony]

I've got two street lights I'd like to turn off to help save the planet.

[xelasnave]

Human pollution is a sad thing and yes something should be done, but so is starvation, slavery, oppression, injustice, drug addiction, drunkenness, domestic violence.. but why try to manage those are they too hard or is it that they don’t turn a quid .
Historic Climate Change is just that .Sonia has taken the trouble to show much evidence that it is with us now . there can be no argument on that.. but even those facts are being used by vested interests to make humans feel they are the only cause.. But what we face is a change in the climate that history shows us is a fact of living on this planet..Can we fix it with nuclear power yes of course we can (not) .. Can we fix it with unbridled gluttony ..why of course we can (not) .. Can we take from this planet and never give back ..why of course we can (not)... Can we sprout our concerns leaning out of the window of a limo on the way to our private jet ????..... hypocrisy means you are a caring person doesn’t it???
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Could the concern of our politicians go past buying nuclear power and desalinators to implement a program to see less waste of energy..less energy wasted means less omissions and that what we all want is it not? Well the market system fails us here because power companies and oil companies want us to use more power not less. I am silly enough to wish they could act in our interests not vested interests .
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The well informed say we need to reduce green house gas as much as we can (a target of 40% reduction’s was seen as optimistic but needed) and even that optimistic reduction will never never stop the Historic Climate Change we are experiencing now . Experts see any reduction as simply buying a little more time.. nothing more .. but the real issue is the climate is getting hotter and we need to address the big issues that arise from dealing with a hotter planet..do these experts think nuclear power is the answer..definitely not as that really avoids addressing the real issue and wasting investement on a finite resourse. As a finite fuel with a world monopoly on fuel supply for the planet nuclear fuel will become more expensive , that is how a market works.. look at oil is it getting cheaper as supplies run lower? . We must accept that the planets climate is changing and realistically prepare for that time which does not mean simply buying nuclear power .

We can not stop Historic Climate Change. It is very doubtful that we can even get humans to reduce greenhouse by even 40% (which is at best a stalling tactic) The facts that say bigger issues need to be addressed not just spend our cash on band aids sold by opportunists of the Sky is Falling Corporation. This is what “not real “ experts are saying who also say nuclear power is not an answer but will add to the problem. There are other folk out there who see the opportunity to sell nuclear power and desalination plants trying to pass off that buying their products will stop Historic Climate Change or “Global Warming”. They are opportunists ready to take advantage of a very serious problem that their products will not fix . .
If Nuclear Power is the answer the uranium mines in Australia must be nationalized . Does Australia still own the yellow cake ..mmm I doubt it.. Nationalize the mines and I bet the global warming won’t be in our face every day because the vested interests will see no profit. I mean how ridiculous we have the most important fuel on the planet and we don’t control it we only get to store the waste.
alex

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

The thing that we must keep in mind with any form of "alternate" energy is the big picture of energy payback. If it takes more energy overall to make an alternate energy source than it will create in its lifetime, we should not do it. Quoting financial payback periods is not relevant in the equation.

eg. Energy payback:
To create a solar cell we need to take into account how much energy is needed to mine the sand, purify it to create the silicon, mining of the metals to make the conductors, the metal frames, the protective glass, the backing material that the cells sit on, the glues and other materials, the cost of transport of all this stuff etc. Also add in the cost of keeping them clean and running efficiently. ONLY if the equation produces a net energy profit should we implement it on a larger scale.

Financial payback:
The financial payback may be 10 years for something like this, but that is only because these sources (cells, wind turbines, wave technology platforms etc) are manufactured using (often non renewable) power on an industrial scale, which is purchased at a much lower price. So if a solar panel was to cost $1000 today, but the cost of the energy to produce it where to be purchased cheaper and so the SAME panel could now retail for $800, the financial payback would now be 8 years. The energy payback would still be the same and, in the big scheme, this is the only part of the equation that will determine if the impact on the environment is lessened.

We would be foolish to burn up huge quantities of fossil fuels just to create solar cells to replace the fossil fuels for electricity generation, if the cells then "died" before they produced the amount of energy it took to make them. This does not mean we can't continue into research to find better alternatives, even at a net energy debt, but we must be careful not to implement a solution on a mass scale until we know the answer to this equation.

The other problem is that no-one seems to want any of these solutions in their backyard. When was the last time we saw in the paper that a comunity has welcomed a couple of hundred wind generators along their coast or mountain ridge? Unfortunately, they are best suited for locations that also have "great views". They do not perform well at the bottom of a valley stuck down below the tree line!

[glenc (Glen)]

I read yesterday that the average Australian household generates 14 tonnes of greenhouse gas per year. This breaks down as follows:
34% on travel, 16% on water heating, 15% on electronic appliances (TV etc), 11% on major appliances (Fridge etc), 11% on heating & cooling, 5% on wastes, 5% on lighting and 3% on cooking. What can we do to reduce our GHG emissions? Buy a smaller car? Install a solar HWS? Install grid solar power?

[xelasnave]

It amuses me that if ever solar looks like raising its head there are all the reasons why it wont work however if we mention nuclear them we hear all the reasons it will work and yet none of the reasons why it wont work , or do we hear how the price of nuclear fuel because it will be a world monopoly without any completion whatsoever will be very expensive ..To say otherwise fails to recognize the forces of the market..A then world market..
AND if talking about alternative energy supply the cost of energy to produce it is the first thing placed up against before it finally being fast dismissed .
It amuses me that installing desalinators that require high maintenance with pumps and the units to service and enjoy an ever escalating fuel bill to manage are better than dams that have an initial capital cost yet are not dependant on high maintenance and ever rising fuel bills ..And dams last longer than machinery . If also find it strange that a dam can be less attractive than a plant . I find it strange that real measures to reduce green house can not be implemented . Turn off the lights..Simple things..Look at real war time ww2 .. there was no buldust then a foe was met with belts tightened and the problem faced.
When experts say nuclear is not the way to go why are they not listened to .
This Historic Climate change resulting in global warming can be addressed in many ways yet only two are on the table..two very expensive ineffective solutions . We may well need those solutions but vested interests are moving our eye off the ball by not stating the real problem..it is going to happen ..not we can sortta fix it..so why waste money on desalinatotrs which will require expensive maintence and expensive fuel be it solar, nuclear, or oil supplied.
I am not about sinking all ships I am about floating all ships . I have changed my views in many ways but looked into this a lot and not all opinions get public view. There is a lot of mis information in all camps.. that’s not bad that’s the way it is ... If one wants to do something the first thing is become informed. Simple if you care that’s a starting place .
Alex

[Karls48 (Karl)]

I agree with everything that OneOfOne posted. I was going to get to Energy payback in previous tread but it was closed.
I also agree with Alex. There was a proposal to build new dam in Blue Mountains about 20 years ago. Greenies put up such a political pressure on government that it never went ahead. If that dam had been build then Sydney would not need desalination plant.

[casstony]

Blind freddy can see that we will be using sunlight more directly in the future, since it is the original source of our current power generation. How do we make our leaders invest more taxpayer dollars to get the technologies developed more quickly?

[xelasnave]

When I lived on the river down at Mt White a guy was selling a property and it had heaps of spring water, its everywhere ..Remember "Neverfail Spring Water" that was it another spot on the hill 4 klms away but it is the same water..Neverfail are getting it outta West of Gosford now hopefully from another spring ...Wonder what it costs to pump spring water as oppossed tp sea water , The springs are apparently fed from the Northern Territory so someone said ..I dont know about that but I do know there is something no one has looked at ..
As to being efficient with energy thats a joke ..it really is a joke . How about canning all car racing to make up the short fall, smaller cars, no private air craft, no mega boats, no petrol cars within a 4 klm radius of the CBD, oh and how about turning off some lights ... one could make a list before we get into trying to can alternative energy .
I have seen the formula to justify anything .. gee if you are half smart with a spead sheet you can made it say what you want . So those formuleas dont wash with me I am afraid . Give me the figures and I will show you why a desalination plant is economically unviable..anything really . Still my point is if we are going nuclear lets make sure we control it all..the money , the selling , the shipping etc etc not just become the guy who rents the shop to store his empty boxes . I recon Australia is able to make a lot of cash out of all this, we are good at solar and nuclear stuff . But will we get anything out of it .. well I bet we end up buying our fuel just like anybody else .
Has anyone asked who owns the yellow cake ? I dont know who does ? I dont know that anyone worried about global warming have asked the question Has anyone considered the monopoly who ever has the rights to the mines will have ? The resulting price . Being realistic involves considering the position 25 yrs down the track ..want me to paint the real picture as I see it ..it will be reasonable but if you think about it what part of what I say is nonsence . Now dont be unkind We all know that monolopoly is what the Government is against ..look at the number of phone companies ..oh change of direstion on monopoly policy . AND I wont resort to calling anyone not real I think offerring a few alternatives in fact being a lust a little bit little real. Ask yourself how did we go one week lets have a debate on nuclear to this is where they are going does not raise a conspiration proposition relating to global warming ..which is after all Historic Climate Change .
Why are brilliant people in the field being disregarded ?
And Greenies are suckers for being sold a Pup they play right into the hands of global warmers and folk who want to do something in the name of progress ..they were reved up to attack coal power and now find themselves in a hard place and marginalised wondering why and how .
Just look at the material that flows everywhere at the moment ..is it coming for concerned citizens who cant afford petrol .. Dont think so.
alex

[xelasnave]

AND if we get our act together consider this little fact...
Almost 850 coal-fired energy plants planned by China (562), India (213) and the U.S. (72) over the next few years -- none covered by Kyoto -- will pump an estimated five times more carbon dioxide into the air than Kyoto removes, even if every other country hits its 2012 emission targets, which they won't .
That says to me we better get "real" .
alex

[Ric]

Originally Posted by OneOfOne

The other problem is that no-one seems to want any of these solutions in their backyard. When was the last time we saw in the paper that a comunity has welcomed a couple of hundred wind generators along their coast or mountain ridge? Unfortunately, they are best suited for locations that also have "great views". They do not perform well at the bottom of a valley stuck down below the tree line!

This is very true OneOfOne, our rural area was due to have a test farm built but some elements of the community kicked such a stink about property values to the local member it was eventually canned apparently these people thought white dots on the horizon were an eyesore.
These people also complained for the same reason about a microwave tower as well and as a result of that I still have no mobile reception at all. Hope I dont have an accident in the back paddock.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

One on One you hit the nail on the head for sure . Wind generation which is a perfect solution to supplement grid power is sidelined because of people’s individual greed . I can understand the importance of a home owner’s equity more than most people I recon because I got it every day, day in day out ...but fair enough change will affect many people but that’s the way it goes . Or we could sit back and do nothing or buy into an unsuitable alternative to the exclusion of all others .. not "real" or "very real" I am not sure but as the PM said if we don’t face the problem we are for it .. As an x real estate agent I shudder to think how nuclear power plants and desalinators will destroy millions of Mums and Dad's home equity . So that is a matter of compensation not a matter of "we do"or "do not".. The Dept of Main roads now pays compensation for affected property as well as the ones they actually resume . why not similar if you live near a proposed nuclear power plant or a wind turbine farm . Money makes it better always ... But if nuclear power stations are the go or wind turbines you cant let the interests of a few stand in the way of the greater good otherwise there would be no freeways , ever tried to sell a home on a main road ? Maybe we should have no grid power ..try to sell a house under a transmission line ..very very difficult, try to sell a house under the flight path .. again no one really likes that sort of thing..but that’s modern life . So I can’t see that people saying they don’t like the sound of wind turbines put the idea on the skids ..If this is let happen we had better remove the trains (people don’t like buying near the sound of trains) and the airport (who like being under the flight path?) and of course my pet hate in Sydney Choppers .. try driving you car with that noise and you are inviting a defect notice.
So lets keep options on the table and not remove them for noise pollution or we won’t have a modern world and a more energy efficient one and that means global warming.. All are wringing their hands but eliminate all ideas but nuclear ..think about what is going on there..I think I would prefer living near a wind turbine farm as unpleasant as that may be rather than living near a near quiet nuclear power plant .. That’s just me but I would be confident that any of the folk in the proposed sites for nuclear power may be on my side if they were given the alternative ..but they missed having the debate we were going to have like every other Australian I guess .
The problem is grave so we are told ..global warming ..but when you realise it is also better called Histroic Climate Change that is when you start saying what the heck if someone complaints about the noise pay them off and lets get it done. Many issues cloud th epicture and calling "it" global warming" serves the interests of a few as it is proposed it is all humans fault well if it is we are doomed cause you wont change greenhouse except by billions dying ,,and the ones that are left wil still do nothing. But if its recognised as historic maybe we can manage the problems by real preparation real planning not more bandaids to make others fabulously wealthy with rights to a world wide monopoly . You need competition or thats what we have been told until now

alex

[xelasnave]

and tidal power? well we managed sewage out flows into the ocean again you cant let the vested interests of a few govern the common good be they with nuclear power, wind farms or even solar collection.
alex

[Sonia]

People think that climate change/global warming is a small thing, they need to look at this again as it is bringing consequences to our everyday lives.
There are many things that we can do to stop this and are easy to do!

Start to walk, dont just get in the car to go down the road to the shop. Carbon emissions produce 20%.
Use compact fluorescent light bulbs. These energy-efficient bulbs help fight climate change because they reduce the amount of fossil fuels that utilities burn. You will save 100 pounds of carbon for each incandescent bulb that you replace with a compact fluorescent, over the life of the bulb.
Recycle more! Plastic, glass, metal and so on . For instance, you’ll save two pounds of carbon for every 20 glass bottles that you recycle. Recycling paper also saves trees and lets them continue to reduce climate change naturally as they remain in the forest, where they remove carbon from the atmosphere. If you own a car, it will get better gas mileage when the tires are fully inflated, so it will burn less gas and emit less carbon. Check your automobile monthly to ensure that the tires are fully inflated. Follow this tip and save 300 pounds of carbon dioxide for every 10,000 miles you drive. Trees absorb carbon dioxide from the air and use it as their energy source, producing oxygen for us to breathe. A tree in the temperate zone — found between the tropics and the polar circles—can remove and store 700 to 7,000 pounds of carbon over its lifetime. A tree that shades a house can reduce the energy required to run the air conditioner and save an additional 200 to 2,000 pounds of carbon over its lifetime. Heating and air conditioning draw more than half of the energy that a home uses in the United States. Turn down the heat or air conditioning when you leave the house or got to bed. You can easily install a programmable thermostat that can save up money and carbon. If you shop at a supermarket, the food you buy may travel in a plane from the other side of the world, burning fossil fuels the entire trip. Shop at a local farmers’ markets and you will find fresh and healthy food, and help save our climate.

[xelasnave]

Good on you Sonia
So many people don’t practice what they preach I know you are concerned and bet you do what you personally can. When you look at the traffic flows around most cities and ask if we could not have electric cars all cry that they need the power, range is hardly a problem for most city drivers, where do they need this power I ask when you are lucky to get the thing up to 60 klms/hour before you come to a stop for another wait. It amuses me seeing the v8s with one person at the wheel, the many 4wds that never never will see the conditions they were built for ..the owners mistakenly believing they will be safer in a big vehicle in a smash. Look at your Land Rovers plenty of windows to let twisted metal intrude in an accident.
There is a list of real things that can be done I saw on another site (Tirock posted it) a list made by a Canadian Journalist which suggests many ways to minimize the problem just by less gluttony.. and when you think about it gluttony is the key to the problem. Have you worked out how much carbon is released in a season of formula one racing..let alone the many many classes in car racing today..and whets the point of it? Men trying to show they are better than another at a mindless game..They would not have it but car racing is the same as sitting at a computer playing space invaders. Repetition makes you better we know that so why bother. Consider the tyres that are consumed in car racing in one event.and the cost of energy to produce same..yet when one mentions solar panels you get this..what about energy cost to produce them..nuclear is more efficient. We are being snowed, and fortunately everyone I am talking to are saying the same thing... someone is selling something otherwise why is there so much "news" about it. Even a kid the other day pointed out.."but the Great Barrier Reef has been thru this sort of thing how will getting that horrible nuclear power save it when it has saved itself many times over when it was hot in the past" ..and that’s a kid who you would think did not understand but he did not buy the snow job.
The nuclear power people by using this to sell power stations is as I said causing people to take their eye off the real problem.. much much more needs to be done to prepare for a world that will be hotter.. Your PM in an effort to grab headlines came out recently with a call for more paper work to manage things but really what a poor lead he gives to seriously address the problems.
If you consider the movement of millions of people relocating to new areas one would think matters of infra structure would be high on the agenda .. no that is seen as a military problem.. that does not add up to me. People that will lose their homes are to be treated unkindly it seems by a "stay where you are and die approach". It upsets me greatly that vested interests are putting the human race in harms way simply to gather even more wealth to enjoy even a higher level of gluttony. What can we do to bring them to heel. We need to talk about it to every friend we have and point out how they are being conned into thinking stupid measures will solve the problem. What I find very comforting is the way the propaganda is being seen for what it is and yet most people are concerned with the un necessary pollution .
Keep up the good work, keep informed, don’t buy crap and tell your friends.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Black roofs are the fashion here. How harder an air cond. has to work to remove that un necessary heat build up. Could not councils change the building code to out law them. Simple but there is no will unfortunately.
alex

[xelasnave]

The truth hurts they say and I bet this would hurt some but this is the article Tirock posted elsewhere by the Canadian Journalist.... some could be heeded and think of the reduction...
By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN, Toronto Sun, February 22, 2007

I applaud the many rock stars and other celebrities who are helping former U.S. vice-president Al Gore stage seven "Live Earth" concerts around the world on July 7, to alert us to the dangers of global warming.

As long as every one of these Captain Kyotos signs the following pledge:

"I (insert name here) accept that as a multi-millionaire who has profited enormously from our consumer-driven culture, I have become a poster (insert gender here) boy/girl for excessive and conspicuous consumption, and that I am therefore disproportionately responsible for man-made global warming.

"I promise to take the following steps immediately, both to set an example to others and to reduce my carbon imprint on the Earth.

(1) Since cars are a major contributor to global warming, I will sell all the vehicles I own, donating the proceeds to a worthy environmental charity and replace them with one car -- a small hybrid with no air conditioning. Of course I will take public transit whenever possible.

(2) Since houses are major emitters of greenhouse gases, I will sell all the mansions and other residences I own around the world and donate the proceeds to environmental causes. For my personal use, I will purchase one home in the country of which I am a citizen of no more than 2,000 square feet, still giving me a level of privacy and luxury unknown to the people of the Third World, who have suffered enormously due to my excessive, personal contribution to man-made global warming throughout my career.

(3) Since flying is devastating to the climate because it injects greenhouse gases directly into the atmosphere at high altitudes, I will never again fly for pleasure anywhere in the world, including in my own jet or in one chartered for me. If I must fly for my work, I will restrict myself to regularly-scheduled commercial flights, substituting more environmentally-friendly train or bus travel whenever possible.

(4) I will never again claim to be "carbon neutral" merely because I made a donation to some group that plants trees, since such programs are increasingly suspect in terms of their effectiveness and because this would be a continuation of my refusal to accept personal responsibility for the disproportionate environmental damage my extravagant lifestyle has caused.

(5) I will never again go on a shopping spree in New York, L.A., London, Paris, Rome, Hong Kong or anywhere else, thus freeing myself from unnecessary possessions that require the burning of enormous amounts of fossil fuels both to create and to transport around the globe.

(6) Since locally-produced food and drink generate fewer greenhouse gases than those imported from abroad, I will consume only domestically-produced food, water and alcohol, including champagne.

(7) When taking vacations, I will confine myself to locales that are within driving distance of my home. Never again will I fly to any exotic, five-star resort, whose very existence is a grotesque monument to conspicuous consumption, one which could not have been built without the excessive burning of fossil fuels.

8. Finally, I will never again permit my music or image to be used to sell any commercial product, to show that we must all simplify our lives in order to reduce our carbon footprint and save the Earth."

I can't wait to see who signs up. Can you?

end of snip.
alex

[Ric]

Hi Alex, I will be very interesting to see who does sign the pledge.

Cheers

[glenc (Glen)]

There is plenty of solar energy available on a sunny day, something like 20 mega joules per square metre per day.
(One kWhr is 3.6 MJ.) See: http://www.bom.gov.au/sat/solrad.shtml

The problem is storing it so you can use it at night. Here are some ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_storage