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  #41  
Old 29-01-2007, 09:44 AM
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US urges scientists to block out sun

How's this for an idea? Not good for astronomy? "Scientists have previously estimated that reflecting less than 1 per cent of sunlight back into space could compensate for the warming generated by all greenhouse gases emitted since the industrial revolution. Possible techniques include putting a giant screen into orbit, thousands of tiny, shiny balloons, or microscopic sulfate droplets pumped into the high atmosphere to mimic the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption. The IPCC draft said such ideas were ;"speculative, uncosted and with potential unknown side-effects"" http://www.smh.com.au/news/environme...919213362.html
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Old 29-01-2007, 09:51 AM
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Sounds a bit loopy to me... but who knows

I'd rather treat the causes, not the symptoms
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  #43  
Old 29-01-2007, 09:54 AM
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Graham RE: "How do you maintain a power grid if the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow ?" If you use solar hot water systems and solar powered street lights you don't need as much power at night. Well designed houses in Australia will stay warm at night and don't need heating. The wind is usually blowing somewhere so you can connect up wind generators into a grid. Then there is tidal and wave power too. So the base load can be much smaller.
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  #44  
Old 29-01-2007, 10:36 AM
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Was under the impression that off peak power was used to pump water back up the hill in the snowey system to act as peak use ??, ie BIG battery when needed hmmm, think you could do the same with other power sources.

Spud
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  #45  
Old 29-01-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenc View Post
How's this for an idea? Not good for astronomy? "Scientists have previously estimated that reflecting less than 1 per cent of sunlight back into space could compensate for the warming generated by all greenhouse gases emitted since the industrial revolution. Possible techniques include putting a giant screen into orbit, thousands of tiny, shiny balloons, or microscopic sulfate droplets pumped into the high atmosphere to mimic the cooling effects of a volcanic eruption. The IPCC draft said such ideas were ;"speculative, uncosted and with potential unknown side-effects"" http://www.smh.com.au/news/environme...919213362.html
Once our scientists have evaluated the problem I'm sure they'll come up with the obvious solution: Send a batch of cane toads into space. They fix all sorts of problems (like cane beetles) and will quickly reproduce enough to block out 1% of the sun.
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  #46  
Old 29-01-2007, 10:59 AM
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Once our scientists have evaluated the problem I'm sure they'll come up with the obvious solution: Send a batch of cane toads into space. They fix all sorts of problems (like cane beetles) and will quickly reproduce enough to block out 1% of the sun.


Finally... they're good for something

Toaaaadssss .... in ..... space!!!
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  #47  
Old 29-01-2007, 01:38 PM
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a quote from i think it was the daily telegraph:

Quote:
Q: how is the quantity of pollutants realeased into the atmosphere measured and how reliable are the quoted figures?

A: scientific and other reports are as reliable as the biases of the members of the committee responsible and as guaranteed as the intentions of the politician who commissions them.
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  #48  
Old 29-01-2007, 01:41 PM
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Says it all really, Ving
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  #49  
Old 29-01-2007, 01:55 PM
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so does this: 0_o
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  #50  
Old 29-01-2007, 02:24 PM
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so does this: 0_o
Wazzat????
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  #51  
Old 29-01-2007, 05:06 PM
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google 0_o
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  #52  
Old 30-01-2007, 04:08 PM
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possible nuclear power plant sites

Based on four primary and six secondary criteria, including proximity to seawater for cooling and access to the national electricity grid, areas identified as possible nuclear plant sites are:
in Queensland – Townsville, Mackay, Rockhampton, Gladstone, Bundaberg, Sunshine Coast and Bribie Island;
in NSW/ACT – Port Stephens, Central Coast, Botany Bay, Port Kembla and Jervis Bay/Sussex Inlet;
in Victoria – South Gippsland, Western Port, Port Phillip and Portland; and
in South Australia – Mt Gambier/Millicent, Port Adelaide and Port Augusta/Port Pirie.
http://www.tai.org.au/index.php?opti...ileinfo&id=997
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  #53  
Old 30-01-2007, 10:41 PM
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The latest GW inanity is:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-30417,00.html

It seems that the great barrier reef will be extinct in 20 years.

How does this pass even modest research? The reef has existed for 18 million years (the northern part - 2 million years for the southern) and gone through numerous climate cycles - there has been at least 5 ice ages and interglacials in the last 400k years and the reef is still there but the GW hysteria is going to make it disappear in 20 years!

lots of politics, not much science

I quite like this summary:

http://bostonreview.net/BR32.1/emanuel.html

it is a bit of a read, but worth it as an excellent summary of climate science.
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  #54  
Old 31-01-2007, 05:34 AM
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The oil industry and the coal industry don't want to admit it but climate change is here. "Average Sydney temperatures will soar by 4.8 degrees by 2070, according to a CSIRO report commissioned by the NSW State Government. In summer, maximum temperatures could rise by up to seven degrees by 2070, according to newspaper reports." http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/...919346716.html
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  #55  
Old 31-01-2007, 07:29 AM
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At the risk of observing the obvious it seems we travelled rather quickly from “anyone not considering Nuclear Power is “not real” (or lets read between the lines with that comment and substitute “insane”) to a position asking where the many reactors will be placed . No longer any views of those from the “unreal” department will be considered and the case for going nuclear has clearly been established, guess that happened whilst I was in the bush for a little under 48 hours. I thought it must be my imagination …a list of sites being presented on the ABC radio took me by surprise but confirmed when I saw Glen’s post. But it obviously has been done by experts taking into account all the relevant criteria for the placement of a power plant … more likely put together by someone aware that folk wont want them in their backyard and will stop complaining when the proposed site near their house is moved elsewhere... at that stage they wont argue about if we should have NP or not … just get it out of my back yard will be the view… and the powers know that aspect of human nature and will work it to get them somewhere.
For those who see it similar to me I say it is the old divide and destroy tactic being employed to take the debate from one of national interest and concern to a level where individual communities will be fighting simple against a single plant and its placement within a district . For those who think different.. go back to sleep your elected representatives have nothing but your interests at heart.. you have nothing to fear .
Needless to say when asked if he would object to a nuclear power plant next to his house the PM offered a prepacked view for “the people” if any are still awake and need nice words to aid their drift into dreamland…. Saying he would not worry if a nuclear power plant was to be place next door to his house . I don’t believe our PM need worry about that happening for many reasons and he may be happy to live next door (taking him at his word) but I bet if it was to be placed anywhere in his electorate his view would change . In fact it will come down to an electorate by electorate battle and I suspect those electorates that have not supported the Government will get “power” but not in the way they have been working for .
Will local councils have a say? Will the words environmental impact study mean anything? And if they do will any studies be more than a rubber stamp to a program obviously already in place, a program that we are told a little more about each day.
I think the problem of climate change is not imaginary however wasting time and effort on vested interest solutions will leave us with plenty of power (maybe) but the real problem of what to do will not have been addressed . We may end up with an air conditioner in every house, pulp trees on all our best agricultural land but looking at the figures the planet will still be hotter . The suggested solutions are laughable... placement of CO2 into rock for example seems an impossible dream but its investigation drains the resources that could be used better. I say lets counter the rise in Ocean level by digging a big hole to drain the excess Ocean into … well that has a better chance of a happy result than placing CO2 into rock and how crazy is that as an idea still a committe should start work on determining the size of the hole .. find it is not a perfect solution and say .. go nuclear it is the only way..or you are "unreal" "not real" or "insane"
Still on the bright side taxes that would be wasted on public education and health issues can be redirected to supporting “studies” as to where to place the power plants…and the question if we should store nuclear waste has been hidden as a political question ... we have nuclear power stations of course we need to store our waste .... so we may well make some cash by taking everyone elses waste.. after all they will not be silly enough to keep it in their countries. At least ash from a coal furnace can be disposed of relatively easy .
Why has the benefits hydro power been passed by ... the environmental impact to our rivers takes it off the table I guess . One day in the future you go to the sea side what would you rather see a nuclear power plant or a hydro plant (taking power from the tidal action). And of course there will never be any accidents but a leak of radioactive material into the sea could be of a concern one would think .
The real worry with all this is, we the people don’t seem to have any control of our future. I heard 50% of the people don’t want Nuclear Power so their minds still have to be changed for they are after all are “not real”… I hate the condescending "we know best” crap we are dished out particularly when it’s only to sell a product, a produce owned by someone employing lobbyists and politicians to sell the goods.
One other worry! Whilst we are wringing our hands over this what are they really trying to take our attention away from... ?
alex

Last edited by xelasnave; 31-01-2007 at 07:39 AM.
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  #56  
Old 31-01-2007, 09:15 AM
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We have plenty of solar energy, much more than most countries. We also have a long coastline with plenty of wind, wave and tidal energy. The main problem is storing energy so we can use it at night. When it comes to transport diesel is more efficient than petrol and petrol is more efficient than LPG. Also trains are more efficient than trucks. Why does the PM subsidise LPG and trucking?
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  #57  
Old 31-01-2007, 10:10 AM
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I stand the risk of being seen as cynical but it all has to do with money finally, but that is old news for most thinking folk it seems a fact of life .
I believe Mr Diesel invented his motor with a specific fuel in mind..canolla oil... a vegetable oil .. and one would think that may still work . If one wanted to "be real" one would think that is an area worth looking into.. there is so much available re bio diesel on the net to suggest it is a fantastic fuel, and it can be grown on the same land currently being used up for pulp trees.
Ethanol fuel is being produced which seems nice but it has had a little support from Government , but a rather smart way to gain a big slice of the petrol market over night... it got more support than biodiesel..which if you choose to manufacture yourself and save energy you will be taxed fact I believe but correct me as I have not seen any legislation re this..very encouraging not to try it .
But it all boils down to this in my view not saying that this is correct but I believe this to be true ... one has a business, when the business gets big you lobby for Laws to protect your business . Needless to say when lobbying one must make it sounds as if you are only concerned for the greater good, you will employ folk generate income etc etc but in truth it is the personal gain that motivates issues . AND I can not suggest an alternative but even that is not the issue somehow the GW problem needs to be addressed, firstly to cull those milking it for a pay check and secondly to engage science uncorrupted by vested interests to plan a future where our country can best cope with the different climate . to think we can change the climate is expecting too much of our capabilities to change the current direction can be done by discussing it debating it but I guess that time has passed well at least until the stations are up and running .
It is ironic also that now I can buy an excellent TV that runs on 12 volt the very same all use by taking 240vlt and dropping it to 12 volt in their homes. why? well we need 240 to transfer power. so maybe the problem is not so much the needs but the distribution and storage, but as rain water tanks are being considered if you are a caring person why not run your lights, and most electricals from your own solar panels.
Still when one thinks of what could be done and what will be done it is like thinking of two different planets... hopefully the debate can move from where to put them to will we get them . Maybe this is one of those mandates governments use to get things done??
Still a current unhappy result..money is being wasted on putting co2 into rock, trees using agricultural land which does not require irrigation, and money is being spent on a political campaign to manage electorates. Do we deserve better ...maybe if we expect and ask for better.
alex
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  #58  
Old 31-01-2007, 12:19 PM
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global warming? bah!

the ice age is coming!
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  #59  
Old 31-01-2007, 12:27 PM
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From what little I have read it appears that the climate warms before each ice age as part of a cycle ... I dont know if that is reliable or not but the suggestion I recall was that current GW is part of such a cycle and that although it could be argued that humans may or may not contribute to the effect, the effect has been observed in the past . It is so hard to believe anything and whoever put it forward may have their reasons to play down GW...
So Ving you could indeed be correct , I say you probably are .
The only thing I know for sure is I am getting older and my improving vission sees an even more hansombe face squinting back each time I look in the mirror..
alex
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  #60  
Old 31-01-2007, 01:05 PM
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lol alex.
we had a simalr thread on global warming and i came up with a good site that showed that the warming and cooling is a natuarl cycle and we are currently in teh steep incling temperature area of teh cycle which includes... well what we are currently experiencing (ie weird ass weather and melting polar caps).

i believe the study was done in antartica where they drilled a long way down to show fluctuations in ice temperature or was it some sort of structural thing? over many thousands of years....

interesting but i have forgotten most of it.

not in to this govts scaremongering at all...
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