Win 10, thinking of doing the 'upgrade'

rustigsmed (Russell) · #1 16-05-2016, 04:20 PM

Hi everyone,

It has been a while since I've heard much on Win 10. I know there were a few horror stories from a while back. I'm thinking I am probably eventually going to have to do it (DX12), so I may as well jump soon.

I've got my old old laptop which is running windows 7 I'm pretty sure and I only use it for image capture (scope computer, eg SGPro, PHD2). Its an old computer that struggled a lot before but been a lot better since upgrading the RAM which I might do another upgrade of seeing going from 2 to 4 made such a difference.

My main computer is an i5 4690k @ 4.4ghz, ssd, 16gb ram etc etc running windows 8.1. I use it for everything, from image processing, to playing games and watching tv (actually its hooked up in the living room - wireless keyboard mouse etc).

Do people recommend I do it for both computers? I envisage it would take forever to upgrade on the laptop not sure on the desktop. Have most of the issues been ironed out? I hear that there are add ons to block most of the windows 10 intrusiveness? although I'm not sure if you can still prevent updates?

Advice from people in the know appreciated

Russ

Nikolas (Nik) · #2 16-05-2016, 08:03 PM

stick with 7, 10 does my head in

Luke. · #3 17-05-2016, 09:26 AM

I updated my computers not long after win10 came out.
Overall they start faster. Even faster if you do a complete new install.
No issues at all and looks and works great. I am not sure why you want to block updates though?

I updated an old win7 computer at work which took it about 5 hours including the download.
My i7 laptop only took about 1.5 hours to update.

Larryp (Laurie) · #4 17-05-2016, 10:07 AM

I have 3 laptops, all running Win7. Two of them had Windows Update fail, and I could not fix them, even following a thread about it here on IIS.
Contacted my computer guru, and he recommended upgrading to Win 10.
Apparently no use upgrading unless I fixed Win Update first, as upgrading apparently does not automatically fix existing problems.
My computer guy recommends a thorough cleaning for any viruses etc before upgrading, and he found a couple of minor bugs that my anti-virus software had missed, cleaned them out and did the upgrade.
Everything works perfectly, with no problems with any software.

julianh72 (Julian) · #5 17-05-2016, 10:20 AM

I've updated quite a few computers to Windows 10, the oldest of which is a 2009 "vintage" Dell laptop that first shipped with Windows Vista (with an update to Windows 7 about 4 months after I bought it) which only has a 2-core processor, and 2 GB RAM.

All of the updates went without a hitch, and all of my computers are working as well as or better than they did before; in particular, they are all faster to boot, including the 2009 machine. I haven't had any issues with incompatible hardware, drivers or application software (but "Your Mileage May Vary").

I didn't time any of the updates, but I let each of the machines download the full update before installing (I think that is how it works by default anyway), and then you start the update process. You answer a few questions (mainly, whether you want a clean install, or want to save your apps and data), and then you let it do its stuff. I started the updates in the early evening (so I could monitor progress, and intervene if necessary); some of the newer machines completed the process in about 1 1/2 hours or so, while a couple of the older / slower machines were still working on it when I went to bed, but all had completed by the time I got up in the morning.

As for disabling updates - I have full automatic updating enabled on all of my family's machines, and it isn't causing any of us any problems at all. If you have limited Internet bandwidth, you might want to opt for manual control, but I've got 1,000 GB / month, so I just have them all set to automatically download updates as they come available. Every couple of weeks, I get a notification that "Updates were installed", or sometimes "Updates are available", and I just set it to install and reboot when convenient to me.

Personally, I and my family are all very happy with Windows 10 - it has restored the familiar Desktop and "Start" button functionality which Windows 8 took away, while also having the new features of Windows 8, and for me, it offers the best mix of old and new.

Note that the free update for Windows 7 / 8 users is only available until July 29, after which it will become a paid-for update.

rustigsmed (Russell) · #6 18-05-2016, 04:49 PM

thanks for all the replies its good to get the feedback. when I read articles like http://www.tomshardware.com/news/win...tes,31802.html I start getting turned off by the idea again.

eventually i'll probably just do the desktop. good to know there is still some time yet.

sil (Steve) · #7 19-05-2016, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke.

I updated my computers not long after win10 came out.
Overall they start faster. Even faster if you do a complete new install.

You get the same performance increase by reformting and re installing Win7 or Win XP. The problem is people dont understand how to keep their computers clean so they run at their best ALL the time.

Win10 basically gives you the microsoft store to throw them money quicker. If that's what you need in your life go for it. My XP machines are running just fine as they have for years and Win764 on my recent ones. I wouldn't count on Microsoft having drivers in win10 for older laptops either.

sharkbite · #8 20-05-2016, 03:32 PM

Hi Russel...

My experience upgrading all my machines has been nothing but pleasure.
They are all running much better than any of the xp or win7 builds i have run. The oldest was a e6750 dual core i built in 2005 which has seen all 3 o/s.

I have not yet had to rebuild any w10 build from scratch due to performance issues (never bothered with w7) but with xp i has to do a yearly teardown 3 time before i spat the dummy and upgraded it to 7.

The other pc is a phenomII x6 which has never exactly run like a dog, but
is positively sprightly under w10.

the last is an ARM dual core lappie that was useless for anything except browsing, but the upgrade saw me able to use it as a capture device for astrophotography.

last month The e6750 build blew a motherboard after 11 years of faithful service.
I put in a modern heart and lungs, and rebuilt from scratch with w10 64bit.
This kind of surgery will give you an un-activated build BUT
I used the w7 product key and it was accepted.
(this is not necessary when upgrading the HDD)

I now have 3 machines that are a w10 64bit, and the last time i paid for an o/s was in 2009. They all run beautifully.
This, in my view is an absolute bargain.

All my astro apps work, video capture works via a 10yo capture card,
and all just that little bit snappier

The single problem i had was that the IRDA stack was removed a few builds ago, which meant that i could no longer talk to my dive computer.
Through much user bleating this has now been re-instated with a better one.....all good!

As others have stated - depending on the age of your lappie an upgrade might be problematic if there are no drivers for it, or indeed for any
special equipment you might attach (e.g. usb cameras)
I don't know this for sure, but it may be a problem.
If the lappie is not up to snuff the upgrade process will halt and warn you anyway.

here's one that might stuff you -

w10 drops the media centre feature -

if you are using w8 MCE you need to have a good think about proceeding,
as you will need to replace the MCE function with an app.

cheers,

P.S. if you need more oomph out of the lappie - have you considered an upgrade to SSD? I found this to be the best bang for buck boost and run them in all machines now.
everything that needs a fast disk is quicker - faster boot times - faster app starts (except video processing which is not as disk intensive as you might think)- and you don't really need more RAM as caching to SSD is "almost" as quick....

RobF (Rob) · #9 20-05-2016, 06:39 PM

2 desktops updated here and running at least as well as they used to on Win 8.1 - one a 2014 i7-4770K machine, the other a Q6600 from 2008.

Make sure you do a full backup beforehand for insurance.

The Q6600 is a different machine running 64bit modern O/S versus 32 bit XP (and it was constantly tweaked and optimised).

julianh72 (Julian) · #10 30-05-2016, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sil

You get the same performance increase by reformting and re installing Win7 or Win XP. The problem is people dont understand how to keep their computers clean so they run at their best ALL the time.

That's not the whole story for me - two of the machines that I updated at home were "clean" Windows 7 re-installs before I updated them to Windows 10 (precisely because I wanted to avoid any legacy "junk" after the update) - and they definitely boot faster than they did with a fresh, "clean" Windows 7 installation.

After 6 months or so of experience with Windows 10 - all of our machines are still running just as fresh as when Windows 10 was first installed on them. My prior experience was that you would normally see a gradual slow-down with a typical consumer Windows machine as various system applications and processes build up a general layer of "gunk" on the hard drive and OS. You would live with this until the machine became too glacial to stand any more, at which time you would do a re-format / re-install - and let's face it, a re-format / re-install isn't something you ever really wanted to do! That hasn't been needed on any of our Windows 10 machines so far.

It seems to me that Windows 10 does seem to manage the "house-keeping" side better than Windows XP / 7 did, on the same machines, with the same application software installed.

julianh72 (Julian) · #11 30-05-2016, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sil

Win10 basically gives you the microsoft store to throw them money quicker. If that's what you need in your life go for it. My XP machines are running just fine as they have for years and Win764 on my recent ones. I wouldn't count on Microsoft having drivers in win10 for older laptops either.

You don't HAVE to buy any software from the Windows Store. The only native "Modern UI" apps I have installed are some of the free ones for services I use, such as eBay, Netflix, Facebook, etc. Microsoft haven't received a cent from me for several years, apart from whatever OEM licensing fee they get on new machines we have bought. (I'm even running the free versions of Word Mobile and Excel Mobile on my smaller format Windows 10 tablets / convertibles.)

With respect to drivers for old hardware - I can't confirm the situation for any particular machine - but the updater application does a hardware / software compatibility scan before it starts the update process. I had no issues with any laptops going back as far as 2009-vintage, but your experience could be different.

I might sound like I'm a Microsoft "shill" - that's not the case, and I fully understand the adage of "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" - but I have been genuinely impressed with how painless the whole Windows 10 update process has been for me and my extended family.

Slawomir (Suavi) · #12 30-05-2016, 05:04 PM

Might be of interest to some...

Two nights ago while my mount was slewing to a target and while all gear was connected, Windows 8 decided to shut down my computer and by itself without asking me started to install Win10. There must have been a box somewhere that I did not uncheck...

Anyway, over an hour later my laptop has completed redoing its brain, so I could restart the software: SGP, phd2, CdC and EQmod.

To my greatest surprise, everything connected right away and I just had to re-sync the mount in CdC so the scope was pointing accurately at the sky. By everything, I mean the camera, guide camera, electric focuser, electric rotator and the mount.

In the end I do not really care which version of Win runs my gear, as long as it works. So far so good

spiezzy · #13 30-05-2016, 08:07 PM

I am running my third Image session with Windows 10 and it is running a treat no issues I have everything running and no conflicts or crashes .
I am pretty impressed with this OS not bad not bad at all
cheers Pete

pjphilli (Peter) · #14 16-09-2016, 02:48 PM

Is there a way of scheduling Win 10 upgrades?

I have now used Win 10 for about 9 months and I still keep getting upgrades about every two weeks without warning. These regularly delay shutdown by up to 10 minutes and about the same time for "working on updates" on subsequent startup. These delays often occur at very inopportune times. Can they be scheduled to suit me? My pc is an HP Intel i5 vpro 64bit and is pretty fast for normal working.

Cheers Peter

pluto (Hugh) · #15 16-09-2016, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjphilli

Is there a way of scheduling Win 10 upgrades?

I have now used Win 10 for about 9 months and I still keep getting upgrades about every two weeks without warning. These regularly delay shutdown by up to 10 minutes and about the same time for "working on updates" on subsequent startup. These delays often occur at very inopportune times. Can they be scheduled to suit me? My pc is an HP Intel i5 vpro 64bit and is pretty fast for normal working.

Cheers Peter

If you're running Win10 Pro I think there are ways to schedule (or disable) updates, in Home I believe not (I'm obviously not counting the useless "active hours" nonsense).
The only thing I hate about Win10 is with the Aniversary Update it just updates whenever it wants. To disable that (on Home or Pro) you can do something like this, it works but it shouldn't be necessary.

I know it doesn't solve your problem directly but if you get into the habit of putting your computer to sleep rather than shutting it down all the time, and implement the "fix" I mentioned above, then you'll be able control when your computer installs updates. That's what I do and I don't even notice the updates anymore.

acropolite (Phil) · #16 17-09-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nik

stick with 7, 10 does my head in

W10 is OK if you simply install the Classic Shell start menu. Classic shell brings back the "proper" start menu and program groups that exist under win7 and make the W10 experience tolerable. Why microsoft sought to emulate a tablet OS for desktop use escapes me, much of the interface is not new, it's simply hidden behind a mostly dysfucntional GUI.

garymck (Gary) · #17 17-09-2016, 08:47 AM

I would say avoid Windows 10 like the plague. I had 2 computers - a laptop and a desktop, both decide they would not recognise my login details within 24 hours of each other. Checking this out via my Mac laptop, I found this is happening randomly to people with Windows 10, - the computer will not recognise a correct user/name and password, or a changed username/password if you use another computer to login to your Microsoft account and change them - Microsoft doesn't know why, there is no cure - you have to reformat and reinstall everything. Basically, if you don't have a backup (I did) or an alternative boot device (I did) you lose everything. The continual updates drove me nuts.......... and ruined several nights of imaging when it decided to reboot unexpectedly. I quite liked it but I've reverted to dual booting Windows 7 and Linux Mint. I'm now avoiding Windows for everything if I can help it. I'll stick to Linux and Mac's.....

I know Windows well enough to have become sick of it (ran a software support team before retiring and had enough experiences of Windows to grow tired of it!)
FWIW
Gary

w0mbat (Ian) · #18 17-09-2016, 10:04 AM

I have had no serious issues with Win 10 upgrades on 4 laptops.
I have also run the anniversary update on two of them without serious issues.
Peter....one of the advantages of the recent anniversary major update to Win 10 is that it introduces the ability to tell it when you DO NOT want it to restart for updates. There are many other improvements as well including a built in Linux shell which Linux users tell me will be a useful thing.
Ian

speach (Simon) · #19 18-09-2016, 09:16 AM

found win 10 much much better than win 8, but on my imaging lappy it's still got win 7

pluto (Hugh) · #20 18-09-2016, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

...one of the advantages of the recent anniversary major update to Win 10 is that it introduces the ability to tell it when you DO NOT want it to restart for updates.

Can you explain how you do this?

I thought that was an option they removed in the anniversary update, not added. That's why I recommended that hack I linked to below.
They added the option to tell it which hours of the day it is acceptable to install updates and restart, but that doesn't seem to allow you to disable auto updates/restarts...?

I hope I'm wrong, I hate that they got rid of that option.