Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

I dont think the good folk of iceinspace have ever doubted that Universal axiom xelas

having said that however I will say this...."it's critical that you at least help out with the nitty gritty of the Space LIGO project - especially the mirrors even if they arent really required. I am a strong believer that mirrors should be installed in the next generation of LIGO detectors irrespective of whether they are part of the measurement or not. Heavy mirrors. massive heavy mirrors - at least 15 of them weighing over 900kg each - The mirror system will impress investors and bankers to fund the project in space".

You may wish to consider consulting with an expert who is commercially savvy and understands the criminal system that underpins Wall street and the casino stock market before you stampede towards getting your little idea off the ground.

Of course all recognise my magnificence but there is little point in restating the obvious. AS humble as I am I find continual praise unnecessary please praise the wonderful ideas not the man as it is conceivable that others may also have reasonably good ideas.

You seem to sence what I expect and have knowledge of financing so just get things moving and advise my secretary the openning date so she can get my tux pressed. But make sure you order two of everything... In time you will appreciate why I follow such a policy.

Please insist my name does not appear anywhere unless of course you negotiate a suitable fee (contact my agent and he will go over my rates) if you feel my endorsement is critical to further funding.

And perhaps drop your referrence to Greece and their scientists, the bankers may become worried that the project may be financially dubious.

So any more on the recent news the subject of this wonderful thread.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Of course all recognise my magnificence but there is little point in restating the obvious. AS humble as I am I find continual praise unnecessary please praise the wonderful ideas not the man as it is conceivable that others may also have reasonably good ideas.

You seem to sence what I expect and have knowledge of financing so just get things moving and advise my secretary the openning date so she can get my tux pressed. But make sure you order two of everything... In time you will appreciate why I follow such a policy.

Please insist my name does not appear anywhere unless of course you negotiate a suitable fee (contact my agent and he will go over my rates) if you feel my endorsement is critical to further funding.

And perhaps drop your referrence to Greece and their scientists, the bankers may become worried that the project may be financially dubious.

So any more on the recent news the subject of this wonderful thread.

Greece is not what it appears in the media.

About 30% of the worlds shipping vessels are under Greek Control (that figure was over half when Onassis and the other Shipping magnates were running the ocean circus)

We seem to have some supreme characteristics in common xelas.

Dont tell me that you are sublimely handsome and creatively gifted as well?

These gifts can be a curse though - woman just cant get enough

In the early 1990s I need to resort to an office with three secretaries so that I can handle the bookings and social revenue flows.

Anyway, you were very cunning to divert the conversation away from the 900kg mirrors and into other trivial areas.

You may be able to get away with that childish ploy with other posters in here but not here - no Siree bob.

you may need to apologise in order to move forward from this

Good luck

[xelasnave]

I am very good doing appologies because I am humble.
I am sorry for any offence you may perceive I am guilty of.
I am happy to have mirrors just order double.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I am very good doing appologies because I am humble.
I am sorry for any offence you may perceive I am guilty of.
I am happy to have mirrors just order double.

You should only apologise if you dont mean it and your apology pertains to the mirrors only.

You would never see me apologising for non-mirror related infractions. Never.

You do know what xelas means in Greek dont you xelas?

[xelasnave]

never say never and never twice.

[torsion (Bram)]

Other exciting news is that the construction and building of a third LIGO detector in India has been given the go-ahead. This project, LIGO-India, will be part of the array of US LIGO detectors.

This will greatly help improve the sky localisation of the source of the detected gravitational waves. The GW150914 event was localised in to a 600 deg^2 sky area. This made is very difficult for the EM followup telescopes, most with with small FOV, to find anything. The Dark Energy Survey, mentioned before, is one of these telescopes doing EM followups.

Combining EM followup with the gravitational wave detectors will be the next phase in GW astronomy.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

for $140m it could have been in Aus. http://www.aigo.org.au/aigo_web_docs...iaProposal.pdf

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

for $140m it could have been in Aus. http://www.aigo.org.au/aigo_web_docs...iaProposal.pdf

Australia prefers to use almost 12 billion dollars EACH YEAR of Tax payers money to subsidise and help out the 83% foreign owned fossil fuel and mining industry which only employs about 3% of the Australian workforce and which doesnt pay very much tax.

Australia also prefers to have one of the worlds most lucrative negative gearing tax evasions schemes in the world, which costs the Australian tax pay many billions of dollars in tax revenue each year.

Australia also prefers to spend about 2.5 billion dollars per year detaining refugees in off shore detention centers - a cost which equates to almost $180,000 per refugee per year. All of these costs are met by the Australian tax payer and end up as profits for private individuals and corporations (most of which are foreign owned).

There is no way known that Australia could think big and fund such a project. No way Jose. India can, but there is absolutely no way Australia can - no way!!!

[sjastro]

A follow up Bojan's post

The effects of gravitational waves on us if the source was closer.
In summary we would have to more to worry about the effects of black hole tidal forces than the GWs themselves.

https://briankoberlein.com/2016/02/1...-is-too-close/

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

A follow up Bojan's post

The effects of gravitational waves on us if the source was closer.
In summary we would have to more to worry about the effects of black hole tidal forces than the GWs themselves.

https://briankoberlein.com/2016/02/1...-is-too-close/

...yes Bruce, we wouldn't want any of our cells or molecules in our supremely stationary bodies, suddenly moving a fraction of the diameter of a proton now would we ladies and gentlemen.

We definitely need the world authorities to construct anti-GW devices to compensate for these unforeseen perturbational effects in the space time continuum - the very fabric of space-time - the nylon of our innate existence, the underpinning tarpaulin of existential transformation in the chronologically tempered space membrane

..... just in case something happens.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by sjastro

A follow up Bojan's post

The effects of gravitational waves on us if the source was closer.
In summary we would have to more to worry about the effects of black hole tidal forces than the GWs themselves.

https://briankoberlein.com/2016/02/1...-is-too-close/

Interesting...

Do we have estimation how much energy was converted into GW since BB?
It may be a significant amount, and was "lost" ... except for gravitational effects (it become part of dark matter).

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by bojan

Interesting...

Do we have estimation how much energy was converted into GW since BB?
It may be a significant amount, and was "lost" ... except for gravitational effects (it become part of dark matter).

The short answer is we don't know.

A major source of GWs should theoretically originate from the inflation stage of the Universe some 10^-36 sec after the BB.
Unlike the initial high frequency of GW150914 which was detected by LIGO, these extremely low frequency primordial GWs can only be indirectly detected by measuring a particular type of polarization of the CMB (Cosmic Microwave Background).

Unfortunately in one of the great "stuff ups" of modern cosmology the observed polarization can also be caused by photons from the CMB reflecting off magnetized dust in our own galaxy.
Scientists underestimated this phenomena in making a premature announcement of the discovery of GWs from the inflation period.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/...nal-wave-claim

Since these GWs are masked by local effects, we don't know how much energy has been carried away by GWs since the BB.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Since these GWs are masked by local effects, we don't know how much energy has been carried away by GWs since the BB.

Dark Energy!!! Albeit silly, it remains a valid claim until someone proves me wrong

On a more serious note, I have been trying to visualise the gravitational wave from the BB in my head. Not the most "sciencey" approach but I would imagine that the gravitational wave would be long and low amplitude to the point that it may just be a permanent background noise without any detectable wave form.

We are still a LONG way from having that kind of resolution in gravitational wave detectors. Luckily, we only really need one detector for it because it is everywhere so we don't need to pinpoint a location

[gary]

"High-energy Neutrino follow-up search of Gravitational Wave Event GW150914 with ANTARES and IceCube" submitted to arXiv 17 Feb 2016 by S. Adrián-Martínez et. al.

Originally Posted by Abstract

We present the high-energy-neutrino follow-up observations of the first gravitational wave transient GW150914 observed by the Advanced LIGO detectors on Sept. 14th, 2015. We search for coincident neutrino candidates within the data recorded by the IceCube and ANTARES neutrino detectors. A possible joint detection could be used in targeted electromagnetic follow-up observations, given the significantly better angular resolution of neutrino events compared to gravitational waves. We find no neutrino candidates in both temporal and spatial coincidence with the gravitational wave event. Within 500 s of the gravitational wave event, the number of neutrino candidates detected by IceCube and ANTARES were three and zero, respectively. This is consistent with the expected atmospheric background, and none of the neutrino candidates were directionally coincident with GW150914. We use this non-detection to constrain neutrino emission from the gravitational-wave event.

Paper in PDF here -
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.05411v1.pdf

[torsion (Bram)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

We are still a LONG way from having that kind of resolution in gravitational wave detectors. Luckily, we only really need one detector for it because it is everywhere so we don't need to pinpoint a location

That would assume there is a uniform distribution. That would the the stochastic background radiation, which I think doesn't need to be uniform. But I guess that is 'frequency' dependent (e.g. LIGO band, PTA band etc).

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by Atmos

On a more serious note, I have been trying to visualise the gravitational wave from the BB in my head. Not the most "sciencey" approach but I would imagine that the gravitational wave would be long and low amplitude to the point that it may just be a permanent background noise without any detectable wave form.

Visualizing how a gravitational wave of any amplitude or frequency impacts on space time is a difficult exercise given the wave only acts transversely on particles in space-time.
Then there is the complication with polarization. Gravitational waves like electromagnetic waves can be elliptically polarized.

Here is what a simple gravitational wave looks like.
http://www.einstein-online.info/spot...tional%20waves

[silv (Annette)]

India. What a pity.
They have so many earth quakes there that it must be like an annoying tinnitus - having to substract the rumbling from the stabilization and graphs.
Australia would be so much easier to maintain.
Or is the location favorable as third Ligo for triangularisation?

In light of earth quakes - I wonder what marvels the Japanese installation has to develop to cancel out those influences. And how those developments might be adaptable outside of interferometer applications.

[silv (Annette)]

interaction between mass and gravitational wave, no energy is absorbed (unlike in case of EM waves)?

but there are different forms of "interactions". and one of them is predicted to take energy away from the GW: meeting up with oscillation of light.
when GW pass by a star and the two waves meet - and IF the frequencies are favorable to react in such a way:

the light of the star should appear to brighten.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Interesting...

Do we have estimation how much energy was converted into GW since BB?
It may be a significant amount, and was "lost" ... except for gravitational effects (it become part of dark matter).

what is "lost " energy?

[sjastro]

Energy loss from a GW occurs on local and cosmological scales.

On a local scale a GW loses energy by doing work on stretching and compressing objects (ie LIGO, people, particles distributed in space etc).
GWs however do not directly interact with matter like photons in scattering and absorption/emission processes.

On a cosmological scale, GWs like photons, lose energy through cosmological redshift.

Steven