Losmandy HGM Titan

[Somnium (Aidan)]

i was wondering how people found the Losmandy HGM Titan. i am considering picking one up second hand as a package and wanted get the collective wisdom of IIS. given that it is almost the same price and load capacity, my guess is that most people would opt for the Paramount MX. Also when you compare it to the much cheaper EQ8 it doesn't stack up that well either on paper. the Titan doesn't have encoders (not that i can see anywhere on the net), it has about the same PE and load capacity as the EQ8. i have to say that i am surprised that they do have the same capacity, the titan does look like a much sturdier machine with a good quality finish, i wonder if the EQ8 ratings are ambitious and the Titan a little on the conservative side... (maybe the difference is imaging v visual capacity)

I want to keep this as a very general thread on the quality of the Losmandy HGM, any feedback to help make my decision easier would be much appreciated

[AlexN]

I've not seen the EQ8 in person but I've owned two eq6's and two heq5 pros, a G11 and gm8 losmandy mount and I have used a mates titan. I can say with authority that the synta built mounts are not even close to the mechanical quality of losmandy gear. I had no idea that the paramount mx was that cheap (in relative terms of course) and that being the case I think you might be hard pressed to beat the mx. That said I've seen a titan perform effortlessly with 45kgs on its back.

I had at one stage well over 26kg on an eq6 and in the right conditions, balanced just so, the mount performed beyond my expectations, but the old saying does go.. "skimp everywhere you need to except the mount "

Id rather have a cheap 8" newt with a dslr on a g11 without goto than a ccd on a 4" tak on a heq5 pro.

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by AlexN

I've not seen the EQ8 in person but I've owned two eq6's and two heq5 pros, a G11 and gm8 losmandy mount and I have used a mates titan. I can say with authority that the synta built mounts are not even close to the mechanical quality of losmandy gear. I had no idea that the paramount mx was that cheap (in relative terms of course) and that being the case I think you might be hard pressed to beat the mx. That said I've seen a titan perform effortlessly with 45kgs on its back.

I had at one stage well over 26kg on an eq6 and in the right conditions, balanced just so, the mount performed beyond my expectations, but the old saying does go.. "skimp everywhere you need to except the mount "

Id rather have a cheap 8" newt with a dslr on a g11 without goto than a ccd on a 4" tak on a heq5 pro.

that seems to align with my thoughts. what do you think about the lack of encoders? any reason why losmandy doesn't provide them?

[AlexN]

I don't see the need? It comes with the Gemini 2 goto setup, it reads from the servo motors if I recall correctly. You would lose your alignment if you push the mount to a different point of the sky.. That is an advantage of the EQ8. The ability to manually move the mount whilst retaining the star alignment is a nice touch. Not a deal breaker for me though. If I had the funds and there was a 2nd hand titan available I'd be all over it. If buying new I would look long and hard at the paramount mx. By all accounts it's a killer mount.

[raymo]

It is not surprising that the Titan looks sturdier than the EQ8, being as it
is rated at 79kg compared with the EQ8's 50kg. It is also not surprising
therefore, that the Titan performed effortlessly with 45kg on board.
raymo

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by AlexN

I don't see the need? It comes with the Gemini 2 goto setup, it reads from the servo motors if I recall correctly. You would lose your alignment if you push the mount to a different point of the sky.. That is an advantage of the EQ8. The ability to manually move the mount whilst retaining the star alignment is a nice touch. Not a deal breaker for me though. If I had the funds and there was a 2nd hand titan available I'd be all over it. If buying new I would look long and hard at the paramount mx. By all accounts it's a killer mount.

i wouldn't be moving it manually anyway, i will be remotely driving it so i just wanted to make sure that if the mount powers up after unexpectedly losing power it will not lose its location.

i guess another key thing i need to know is weather the losmandy can be automated effectively. given that i would be using it remotely via a remote desktop and i need to ensure that i can initiate, operate, point, meridian flip and plate solve from power up, without the need to touch the mount. i am sure it can but better to check than be sorry.

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by raymo

It is not surprising that the Titan looks sturdier than the EQ8, being as it
is rated at 79kg compared with the EQ8's 50kg. It is also not surprising
therefore, that the Titan performed effortlessly with 45kg on board.
raymo

where did the 79kg come from Ray? all i can read online is 100lb

[raymo]

If you Yahoo Losmandy G11 you will see the Losmandy website showing
specifications and prices[ in A$] for their mounts with and without Go To, tripods, etc, and a list of necessary extras such as counterweights, and polar scopes[ if you want one].
raymo

[billdan (Bill)]

I agree with you Aiden according to the spec sheets I've read the EQ8 load rating is 50kg, The Titan is 46 and the MX is 42.

However if I won Lotto I'd buy the MESU 200 rated at 100Kg and its the same price as an MX ($9K before the dollar dive bombed).

Regards
Bill

[blink138 (Pat)]

Originally Posted by Somnium

where did the 79kg come from Ray? all i can read online is 100lb

yep 100lb raymondo!
pat

[raymo]

Sorry everyone; after delving deeper into the Losmandy website, I found that in the price list it shows the Titan as having a load capacity of 79kg,
but in the specs it shows that as the total inc. counterweights. Sorry again.
raymo

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by raymo

Sorry everyone; after delving deeper into the Losmandy website, I found that in the price list it shows the Titan as having a load capacity of 79kg,
but in the specs it shows that as the total inc. counterweights. Sorry again.
raymo

i think we can let you off the hook just this once


so is anyone using an HGM remotely as i intend to do? and any experiences i should be aware of?

[Peter Ward]

Dealer hat on for a bit....

You cannot use the Titan for remote observing. There is no index switch with which to re-sync the mount if power is lost. Nor does the mount have absolute encoders...hence once power is lost, there is no way of knowing how it is physically oriented.

That said, if you are happy to power up the mount, do a warm-start, slew then sync to a star, the modelling will be preserved and you can easily control it over a network with whatever software (eg SkyX)

Hope that helps.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Dealer hat on for a bit....

You cannot use the Titan for remote observing. There is no index switch with which to re-sync the mount if power is lost. Nor does the mount have absolute encoders...hence once power is lost, there is no way of knowing how it is physically oriented.

That said, if you are happy to power up the mount, do a warm-start, slew then sync to a star, the modelling will be preserved and you can easily control it over a network with whatever software (eg SkyX)

Hope that helps.

I think that the same applies to EQ8 on an unscheduled power loss. Although it has encoders, they are incremental and don't tell the mount where it is (just how far it has moved). EQ8 does have indexing on both axes, but as far as I can tell, the current ASCOM driver does not make use of it. You can run additional software to home the mount after a power dropout, but that makes full unattended automation more problematic, although it would certainly be a big advantage if you are willing to do a bit yourself (over a network for example) after a power outage.

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

this thread has some info on remote (eq8)
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=131161

the main bit i am referring to was from AstroJunk

The EQ8 is great for a remote scope if you are using EQMOD. For some reason, Skywatcher have neglected to allow the Synscan handset to be controlled remotely from power-on, which is a shocking omission (please correct me if things have changed!), but EQMOD has no such issues.

One issue that can arise with the EQ8 is the loss of home position on power failure if the scope is not parked. The Auto-home feature is not an ascom feature so cannot be controlled through eqmod. Fortunately Skywatcher have put together a utility to do that (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ns/topics/1114) but it would require that you remote access your observatory pc to run it.

I have never had to use it in anger, but I can imagine one day powering down the scope accidentally before parking it!!!!

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Dealer hat on for a bit....

You cannot use the Titan for remote observing. There is no index switch with which to re-sync the mount if power is lost. Nor does the mount have absolute encoders...hence once power is lost, there is no way of knowing how it is physically oriented.

That said, if you are happy to power up the mount, do a warm-start, slew then sync to a star, the modelling will be preserved and you can easily control it over a network with whatever software (eg SkyX)

Hope that helps.

if you have a web camera on the mount then surely if you lose power and mount location you can power up next time, roughly align it to the home position then use plate solving to find your location when imaging. ... maybe i am being naive

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Somnium

if you have a web camera on the mount then surely if you lose power and mount location you can power up next time, roughly align it to the home position then use plate solving to find your location when imaging. ... maybe i am being naive

Losmandy mounts do not have a "home position" as such. The cold start (i.e when all is lost) position is counterweight down and Dec +/- 90 (depends on your hemisphere).

Only mounts with absolute encoders or a home switch can keep track of their physical orientation while preserving modeling data after a complete power loss or loss of comms. ( i.e Bisque, AP etc. )

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Losmandy mounts do not have a "home position" as such. The cold start (i.e when all is lost) position is counterweight down and Dec +/- 90 (depends on your hemisphere).

Only mounts with absolute encoders or a home switch can keep track of their physical orientation while preserving modeling data after a complete power loss or loss of comms. ( i.e Bisque, AP etc. )

but if you can point it to the sky and image, then can't the mount find itself through platesolving and syncing?

i am in a position where either i get the Losmandy second hand or pick up an EQ8. if i get the losmandy it will hopefully be a mount for life, so i want to make sure i am not making a big mistake, hence the stupid questions

[Shiraz (Ray)]

An approach may be to accept that recovering from an unscheduled power down will be difficult and run your remote system on fully protected, battery backed power.

Another consideration with an EQ8 is that they can require a fair bit of worm clearance to work properly - not an issue if you are present to adjust loads to manage backlash, but will be an issue if you want it to work properly at any pointing angles. The Losmandy probably has similar issues (guessing) - I suspect that spring loaded worms or direct drive are almost a requirement for full remote.

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

An approach may be to accept that recovering from an unscheduled power down will be difficult and run your remote system on fully protected, battery backed power.

Another consideration with an EQ8 is that they can require a fair bit of worm clearance to work properly - not an issue if you are present to adjust loads to manage backlash, but will be an issue if you want it to work properly at any pointing angles. The Losmandy probably has similar issues (guessing) - I suspect that spring loaded worms or direct drive are almost a requirement for full remote.

Sounds expensive ... I was going to put in a ups for the computer but not the mount itself