NSW-based IceInSpace Star Party?

iceman (Mike) · #1 13-08-2005, 04:06 PM

Hi guys.

Just throwing some ideas around, wanting to start getting some feedback on having a NSW-based (sydney/central coast area) IceInSpace star party..

We tried for one in May, and were expecting around 30 people, but alas the weather got the best of us.

We have monthly meets at Kulnura which are excellent and getting more of a turnout each month, but i'm hoping to have a 'big' one, where people from further afield will make more of an effort to turn up.

Either up at Kulnura again (the fields are great, plenty of room, power, toilets etc) and it's dark, or have one closer to Sydney (west Sydney? Blue mountains?) so more sydney-siders make it? Are the skies as dark? Will the amenities be there? I dunno I haven't been there.

So i'm after your thoughts..

Where?

Date? We have the starcamp in Ballarat at end October/early November, so before that or after that?

Start throwing some ideas around.. would you come?

wavelandscott (Scott) · #2 13-08-2005, 04:27 PM

I would most likely be interested depending on the where and when...

It is not often that my wife will let me get away without the kids on the weekends as I trravel a fair amount during the week...so about an hour from the city (so I can commute) gets it for me unless there is space and facilities for "the family"...

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #3 13-08-2005, 04:43 PM

I would attend at Kulnurra or a Central Coast/Hunter Region Location. Probably not keen to head towards the lights of Sydney.

CS-John B

xstream (John) · #4 13-08-2005, 04:49 PM

We would consider attending depending on time and location.

ving (David) · #5 13-08-2005, 04:55 PM

/me puts hand up

I'd just have to spend a bit of time collimating when i arrive

the central coast knoked my collimation out heaps and i didnt bother re-doing it...
call me lazy.

some time in mid spring would be great, but just a one nighter as cheryl doesnt allow me out much

iceman (Mike) · #6 13-08-2005, 04:56 PM

Need some ideas of suitable dates..

If we try to have it before the StarCamp, we've got September new moon (3 weeks away), or October new moon (7 weeks away).

If we have it after the StarCamp, then it'd be early December.

Maybe daylight savings plays a part in working out the date? If we want it before DST, then September or October.. DST isn't too bad, gives you more light to setup your gear in you can't get there till late.

Also should we do just a 1-nighter, or try and plan for 2 nights? If 2 nights, would need camping facilities, motels near by? etc.

Just throw some ideas around..

iceman (Mike) · #7 13-08-2005, 04:59 PM

Oh and of course having it at Kulnura will depend on the owners of the property giving the go-ahead. If we have it there, it would most likely just be a 1-nighter because it's a business there and they would have players for Paintball the next day.

Greg Bryant · #8 13-08-2005, 05:01 PM

Mike,

A Central Coast Star Party sounds great. Its proximity to the population bases of Sydney, Newcastle, and the Central Coast make it very appealing (proximity to the Hunter Valley for day trips is also nice...).

Timing: these events need plenty of advance publicity if you want to attract attendees beyond the IceInSpace community. For example, if you were planning to hold one in early October over the Long Weekend this year, we'd certainly advertise it in the October issue of Australian Sky & Telescope (we're at the printers in under a fortnight), but it doesn't come out until early September, so the broad amateur community would only get a few weeks notice.

Should it be held at the time another major star party is on? Ideally not - but then, even if it was one month earlier/later, how many people are going to undertake Star Party trips twice in 4 weeks? (OK...some of you might!)

Such an event could start off as a two-nighter (Friday and Saturday) and grow as its popularity (and number of volunteers) increases.

I note that you're holding monthly observing nights at Kulnura (and I'll get there one month). That's very much how the South Pacific Star Party began. The ASNSW had held monthly observing weekends there since 1987. In 1991, a group of us decided to launch the South Pacific Star Party. We had a 2 year planning period because of the circumstances in which the Star Party came about, but you really only need about 1/10th of that time to kick off a preliminary event.

ving (David) · #9 13-08-2005, 05:05 PM

I wonder if I could line up Belanglo... you wont get darker. I havent been there personally but I might enquire (if its not too far for ppl to travel) they have some emenities but what i am not sure.

october NM would suit me best. I should probably turn up to the next MAS meet huh!

ving (David) · #10 13-08-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

Oh and of course having it at Kulnura will depend on the owners of the property giving the go-ahead. If we have it there, it would most likely just be a 1-nighter because it's a business there and they would have players for Paintball the next day.

the player of the next day could be us!

Greg Bryant · #11 13-08-2005, 05:22 PM

Mike,

How big is your backyard? The Wyoming Star Party has a nice ring to it (and might attract a few international attendees who are hopelessly lost!).

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #12 13-08-2005, 05:35 PM

Is during the Christmas break too far away for you. More people might have the time to travel long distance then. Just an idea.

I would love to make it up to the Central Coast area around the Chrissy holidays but not for a one nighter.

cahullian · #13 13-08-2005, 09:20 PM

we could have a Dob V Buzz Click skirmish. With the winners getting the pick of the sites.

#14 13-08-2005, 10:40 PM

If it is planned over a longer period, perhaps some of us from up north could make the trip too. I think I could be interested. But it would have to be 3-4 days +

Cristmas holidays sounds good to me.

seeker372011 (Narayan) · #15 13-08-2005, 10:44 PM

well wherever we choose to hold it, I'll try to be there

Rodstar (Rod) · #16 14-08-2005, 10:20 PM

If we are going to get people from further afield than the monthly crowd, I think we would be well advised:

1. to have it over at least 2 nights running
2. to organise something gastronomical as well as astronomical for one or both nights, perhaps catered by a catering company so we don't have to worry about organsiation or cooking, just collecting fee for meal.
3. to give everyone at least a couple of months notice.

It is a bit of a way off, but one option would be the Australia Day long weekend in January 2006. The 26th is a Thursday - I'm not sure what the public holiday situation is, but if Friday is a working day, half the working population is bound to have a self-decared holiday that day, anyway. I think this is a better option than December because there is usually lots happening in December socially - work Xmas parties, school functions (for those of us with children), etc. Then again, there is the heat factor (and bush fires, blow flies and thermal currents) in mid summer, which could make things very uncomfortable if we wait until that time of year.

For it to be successful, some people will need to put their hands up to do some organising, and poor old Mike, who has enough on his hands keeping 403+ members from mutiny, shouldn't be lumbered with it. Let's not get too formal about it, though, cos we all want to have fun, and not get bogged down in too much detail.

If we use the Kulnura site, I reckon that we should collect a donation at least to be given to the site owner in gratitude for letting us use the grounds. (Incidentally, I have been wondering whether those of us who use the facilities each month shouldn't chip in a bit each month in that regard, but I digress). Kulnura would be ideal in terms of having a meals area and toilets set up, and wide open spaces for camping.

I agree with Greg Bryant that Kulnura is a good location in terms of its drawing area - handy to both Sydney-siders and Novacastrians, as well as Central Coasters.

It is always worthwhile considering what the purpose of such an event is, especially given that there are other star parties on the calendar around Oz for those who are interested in that sort of thing. What would be distinctive about an IceinSpace star party, for example? Maybe that prompts a more profound question, of what is distinctive about the Iceinspace community, generally? In that regard, my view is three factors:

1. The forum allows instanteous discussion about astronomical events and observing as they occur, rather than a rigid monthly or fortnightly meeting that may not always co-incide with a person's other commitments or interest;

2. Visitors to the forum can pick and choose whatever is of interest to them at the time, and ignore things that do not interest them, without being concerned about offending anyone (the anonymity of the 'Net); and

3. Everyone is so incredibly friendly and helpful, particularly to newbies who may not be at all comfortable walking in on a society function where they feel as if they know no-one and know nothing!

I would recommend that in light of the above, we avoid organising too rigid a program, and that our emphasis be upon newbies. For example, during the day we could have an owner of each of the main types of telescopes give a bit of a speil about how their scope design works, what it cost, how to set it up etc. We could also have someone give a beginners tour of the night sky.

I am very much looking forward to being at the inaugural NSW IceinSpace Star Party.

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #17 14-08-2005, 10:29 PM

You are absolutely correct Rod. Events bigger than the average 'get together of a couple of star-gazing mates' needs planning and plenty of notice.

It would be nice if we could all get together at the drop of a hat, but it ain't gonna happen!

#18 14-08-2005, 11:58 PM

Rod,

Like Ken I agree with most of the ideas you have put forward.

However I also think 2 nights running is not long enough even as a minumim. Especially for those like me up on the north coast. The gamble to travel down to even Coffs Habour to have two night of clear weather is way too short. Kulnura represents and almost 700km one way trip for me. You would still be limiting the amount of folks willing to come. I would want to come for something like 5-6 or 7 days/nights.

I'm not trying to knock Kulnura as a possible site, but I would also think that Sydney would present allot of sky glow at that location. And probably why SPSP is held way out at Ilford. Even at AstroFest QLD a 2 hour drive north west of Brissy was effected by the lights of Brissy, and the and the Gold Coast. You notice these things when you already live at a dark sky location.
I would like to see some of the SE QLD, Northern NSW, Vic and SA folks there too. Or is this event being aimed at sydney, Newcastle and Central Coast folks? Perhaps we could looks at a Lions Club or Camping ground that has anoff season during, with relivant facilities. Might be able strike a deal with them.

I dont mind chipping in for use of location, And I dont mind if the first one is a lil rough around the edges. Maybe some sort of commitee needs to be formed to deal with the logistics of and event that size.

And how about the idea of of sourcing a few willing sponsers. A raffle of sorts to raise a few dollars to help Mike keep this wonderful website maintained and running smoothly.

Winter albeit a cold time of year we would have better sky conditions... I would be cool with waiting until next winter if it mean we could try and get something serious happening.

Just some ideas

regards

firstlight (Tony) · #19 15-08-2005, 01:06 AM

Hi all,

I was just looking through this thread and I thought I would put my 2 cents in.

First I was under the impression that SPSP was going a lot longer than 2001, I seem to recall several members of the BAS attending Illford in 1993, but that is not what I really wanted to talk about.

The Queensland Astrofest came about when a group tried to unite the various clubs in SE Qld in an activity. The organisers of the first Astrofest eventually eventually evolved into the Combined Presidents Meeting, which largely does not organise the astrofest currently. This is now undertaken by a subcommittee (or is that sub-committed

) of representatives from each of the 5 local clubs (don't ask why there are so many clubs... there is only so much cyberspace). I don't have all the insides of the origins, but I hope to piece a large proportion of it together and post it onto the website in the next year or so.

One of the questions that is asked of us is why the QA is held in July/August, and mostly it has to do with tradition (we always did it then

) but in my opinon the main reason has to do with the weather and the sky. You can't beat winter Milky Way, and ususlly this time of year allows us to have at least 2 or 3 nights clear during the week. We have had QA in September but I think this is largely remembered as the Year of the Bugs, as it was quite warm and the lights during the meal attacted every bug within several k's. Sure it is cold, but generally this clears the air, at least that is the theory.

Another problem we have is burn-off of the land, too late and all the cockies are trying to recreate Hiroshima. In principal the burnoff is not time related... they can do it at any time with a permit, it just happens they do it around Show time and after. The joke is that the farmers throw a match as they drive to the Ekka.

If you are keen to organise something, you will need to have a core of dedicated organisers, at least 4 will share the load adequately in the leadup, but a few others at the time will help in the enjoyment for all. Very likely this core will remain at the helm for at least the first few years, but soon others will step forward to join the organisers. In the start the QA attacted only about 30 or 40 by the weekend, but as it has gained in popularity we are now getting over 150 through the week. Astrofest was over organised in the beginning, until there was a clear understanding how the beast would react, so to speak. After a few years it becam less formal as there were 40 to 50 attending and most everybody knew everybody else and we couldn't fill all the beds. Now all the beds a filled by the weekend and so accommodation has to be tightly ordered.

Your Starparty will very likely start smallish, but as it becomes part of the Astronomy calendar, it is almost certain to grow. Your venue will have to accommodate this. This year Camp Duckadang was very close to "critical mass"... not many beds left, parking at a premium, and camping spots starting to become scarce.

So out of all that rambling I had hoped to make these points:

Weather determines when to hold it
A group of people to organise it
A suitable venue to grow into

I haven't mentioned anything about insurance etc, but I think that Anne-Louise is tapping something out at the other computer regarding this theme.

I have just read Robs post, and seem to see some echos of my thoughts.

Cheers

earthlight (Anne-Louise) · #20 15-08-2005, 01:07 AM

Hmmm, It feels like a conference coming on. What your debating is just like trying to decide on a venue, topic or theme and target audience.

All of these are related. Themes like beginners’ talks can be good draw card initially but to be a sustainable yearly camp you need to interest a wider range of expertise. This is easier said then done, as not many people are willing to travel very far to give talks. Too much organization can become an over kill. After a few years of poorly attended talks during mid-week, the QLD Astrofest reduced the talks to Friday and Saturday only and then only a few as not everyone wants to sit down for that long when you can drool and gather ideas from other people's work. These days are also the busiest days and I don't think the committee could function with any more things planned on Saturday.

With venues you need to look ahead. How long do you want this event to occur for? Even if it is kept informal, if popular, the numbers will require efficient organization. Is limiting the number of people attending a wise move or trying to control a large number an option? Will this situation require a paid organiser, or a number of people dedicated to running and not experiencing the camp. Are there enough people around now willing to run a camp with similar numbers to QLD Astrofest? We have jumped from 80 to 150 people staying over the week in about 3 years. The first organisers are likely to still be involved that early on. I felt this year I was almost at that point where I was there to work and not enjoy the camp but that also comes down to the number people willing to do work, and do it well, and not slack at the responsibility given to them. (Plus the ability to trust anyone else to do it as well as you can would be a good skill to have too. :-) And I did choose to do all registration.)

One last thing about using someone's place for a venue is insurance. It is something no one wants to think about but it is important. Starting small is one thing but things become big and complicated very quickly, especially if you add in inexperienced beginners. Make sure you know what you can be covered for and work within these boundaries. Dealing with the public is a thing to be careful with. People not in clubs will probably be classed this way in the legal sense.

Please don't take my comments as negative. I just say what I think may help. I always believe in doing the best you can within the boundaries of the knowledge you have. Plus an insane interest in organising events :-)

Anne-Louise