there are growing signs of a human-induced global warming upsetting any natural balance.
Here it is again, ambiguous comments like "there are growing signs" or "they say", so please explain what the growing signs are backed by actual evidence that spans a period of time valid to the arguement.
The only signs of man's stupidity relate to heavy airborne pollutants, water pollutanmts etc. None of which is proven to cause the "alleged" global warming.
P.S. I just want to remind you that we humans are indignenous to this planet and therefore anything we do to it is natural, just as cows and horses and indeed all animals generate methane, yes another "global warming gas" If we decide to deforest the entire planet it is a natural occurance because we are natural.
it may "be natural" but humans tend to like to be able to predict their future survival and don't usually count on having their habitat disappear due to whatever the force of nature it is that's destroying it?
for eg http://www.itvs.org/risingwaters/story.html
...........
P.S. I just want to remind you that we humans are indignenous to this planet and therefore anything we do to it is natural, just as cows and horses and indeed all animals generate methane, yes another "global warming gas" If we decide to deforest the entire planet it is a natural occurance because we are natural.
[1] By yor definition if a human NUKES the planet and every living mater is destroyed
thats OK because its natural
it ranks as high stupidity because humans have a mind to CHOOSE not to wipe out all species it can't be attributed to a "natural occurance"
[2] where is your evidence to support that humans are indignenous to this planet ?
if you exponentialy reverse the reproduction cycle of humans we disapear off the timeline about 5K BC
on a planet at least 4 billion years old
[1] By yor definition if a human NUKES the planet and every living mater is destroyed
thats OK because its natural
it ranks as high stupidity because humans have a mind to CHOOSE not to wipe out all species it can't be attributed to a "natural occurance"
Well that would depend entirely on your definition of "natural" wouldnt it, such as natural human behaviour.
Quote:
[2] where is your evidence to support that humans are indignenous to this planet ?
if you exponentialy reverse the reproduction cycle of humans we disapear off the timeline about 5K BC
on a planet at least 4 billion years old
This is getting ridiculous. Just where are you suggesting we come from ?
Carbon dioxide missions are not going to stop, and so changes are certainly expected to happen - but the amount depends on how much of these greenhouse gases we are going to continue to use, which in turn is related to the population growth, technologies and the amount of energy that we use. Most commentators would say that it isnt too late to do anything, and need to work together to reduce the emissions and reduce the damage that we are already currently doing to our local environment which in the end will effect future generations. We are already seeing changes happen and will continue to see them. And if the scientific models as we see them are right, then our climate in the next 10 to 20 years will be a different place.
Some of the most obvious signs are visible in the Arctic, as the tempertaures are rising and also the ice melting which is changing the landscape, wildlife and peoples lives.
Other early warning signs such as melting glaciers, plants and animals, and the earlier onset of Spring.
The impacts of the rising temperatures in the artic, is a window open what we may experience in the future, if not us then the future generations. With the continuation of the rising temperatures, there will be more drought, sea levels will rise.
All of the consequences of global warming we cant avoid.
Hee Hee Global Warming at least the Sunshine Coast would disapear aprox 6Mt underwater along with all the foreigners and most of our Aussie grandparents thanks to NATURAL human intervention
Long Live the Sunshine Coast [aka future Atlantis]
Last edited by GrampianStars; 27-02-2006 at 11:02 PM.
On what evidence???? I dont reckon it's any hotter now
with all the heat generated by this thread - it is definitely getting hotter and hotter........
There is now ample evidence that the global climate has increased in temperature by 1 to 1.5 degrees over the last 100 years. I don't think that there is any informed opinion to the contrary. There is zero evidence that is is anthropogenically caused from industrial emissions, however it appears to be a reasonable assumption that this change in global temperatures is caused by us humans. No-one can think of any other scenario.
The impact this will have on ecosystems and human society is unknown. I will say that again - it is unknown. I don't know the latest outputs from the models, but sea level changes of 7m seems absurd, as does all the other wild speculation and hysteria. If anything, we have a dearth of hurricanes up here. I don't see ANY climate changes happening. Sorry, one single catagory 5 hurricane does not count as climate change. There was an article in New Scientist recently where a hurricane expert said that with a hotter climate there would be fewer hurricanes as the mechanism that generates them would dampen.
I have no doubt that sea levels may rise, and storm surges may increase and make coastal living a little more hazardous, but sorry, whatever that high profile organisation "Greenlies" says, civilisation as we know it will still be here in 100 years. Maybe 1000 years. The climate may change somewhat, but looking back over history and over deep time, the climate is always changing. Humans and our society will adapt. What do you want to do about it? go back to horses, bullocks and sailing ships? condemn yourself and your children to a worse life? don't need modern pharmaceuticals? like to live on local produce only? This isn't someone else's problem. If you want a lower standard of living, go for it. I don't think it would help in averting a disaster that is not about to happen.
By the second half of the 21st century, wintertime precipitation in the northern mid to high latitudes and Antarctica will rise
By the same time, Australasia, Central America and sourthern Africa is likely to see decreases in winter precipitation
In the tropics, it's thought some land areas will see more rainfall and others will see less
It is thought the West Antarctic ice sheet is unlikely to collapse this century. If it does fall apart, sea level rises would be enormous
Global average temperatures are predicted to rise by between 1.4C and 5.8C by 2100
Maximum and minimum temperatures are expected to rise
More hot days over land areas and fewer cold days and frost
More intense precipitation events
Don't worry about greenhouse emissions or ice melting. YellowStone National Park is due for an eruption. It goes off every 600,000 years. The last eruption was 630,000 years ago so it is due. The yellowstone volcano when it goes off is several thousand times more powerful than Mt St Helens. The last blast from yellowstone(which was the smallest in history) covered the entire united states, canada and mexico in ash. And the park is swelling. The ground has been rising since 1985 which is causing the water to run out of the lakes. If this is one of the big eruptions then it could cover the entire world in ash and smoke and bring about an ice age.
Just thought I would let you know there is more to worry about on Earth than just carbon dioxide levels and polar ice caps melting. The Earth is a dangerous place to live.
gawd! theres just too many things to quote here!!!
"the globe is warming" debatable, someone mentioned that they thought "winters are getting colder"... i think winters are getting warmer and summers are getting colder... its obviously a matter of perception. My theory isnot that the globe is getting warmer but stablising towards some sort of medium between winter cold and summer hot... but thats not based on anything any scientist has said
"the polar ice caps are melting"... hey, its not the first time they have done so. I am guessing that because this seems to be a reoccuring event (the melting of ice that is) that there is some sort of cycle happening.... some people in the field have even sugested that because of the melting of the icecaps we are heading towards (ever so slowly) another iceage. the science behind this was explained of course but being me, i have forgetten it
as to whether we are contributing to or expediating the melting of said icecaps, I recon our effect is minimal... tho we pollute the hell out of the planet. the melting and creation of the icecaps is part of a cycle that we dont have much to do with.
it's just like the big egoed human race to think that we are so powerful as to be able to change the course of nature in such a big way
I agree Ving. Humans contribute significantly to polluting the Earth and we have made many species extinct. The Earth however does the same thing. If all the events that are happening around the world at the moment cause another ice age (this is likely in my opinion). Many extinctions will occur and then extinctions caused by humans will be irrelevent. The Earth goes through cycles, if it wished to get rid of humans and start afresh it could easily do so. It has done it before.
On what evidence???? I dont reckon it's any hotter now than when I was a kid (Im 43 now) in fact, I reckon the winters are colder if anything. As for comparing satelite photo's, oh please, I have looked high and low for satelite photo's taken in 1906 but guess what!!! There isnt any, comparing say 1980 pics to today is useless, it isnt long enough, even elnino has an 11 year cycle, polar ice comes and goes regularly, and what sea levels???? Where is there evidence that they ar higher? Dont tell me they are higher in the north Pacific coz water levels are the same everywhere thanks to gravity, the jetty I used to swim off when I was a kid is still there today and is not one centimetre closer to the water. Please please dont post dumb comments like it's warmer or they tell me so unless you have irrefutable evidence to back it up, evidence based on at least a thousand years of measurements. In the 70's it was ozone depletion due to CFC's today it's global warming, whatever happend to that poor old ozone layer??? Oh yeah, we woke up to the fact that even the lightest CFC is 7 times heavier than air and cant float up that far, it was all a furphy computer model scam designed by Dupont to make you buy the new gas (R12) because they couldnt renew the copyright on the old one's they owned, that is fact and you can research it any time you like. Billions were made out of that scam, in fact the old CFC's were far more efficient at refrigeration and saved lives by the thousands in hosptials but that didnt stop us believing the multi national compaines, go to the library and borrow a book called the Green Hoax Effect, it might just wake a few of you up. If any of you truly believed for one second that burning coal was destroying your way of life you'd turn your computers off, hmmm, maybe no one will respond after me saying that? I guess I'm a little shaken that my fellow amatuer scientists are gullable enough to believe this nonesense without actually getting off the internet and doing some basic tests. Fill a glass with ice, top up with water to the very rim and watch it melt, if any of you can make it overflow I will shut up, in fact, if you care to measure it you will find you have less water, it's simple chemistry that we all learned in grade 3.
Sorry mate, this amateur scientist listens to scientist's not lying pollies, the coal and oil industry or any psuedo scientist connected with them and I certainly don't read dodgy web sites. The simple fact is that we as humans are pumping excessive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere something that a grade 3 science student could probably fathom. The CO2 levels in our atmosphere are quite low (3 parts in 10000) so in reality it doesn't take too much to change that ratio. You can choose to ignore global warming all you like, you can deride us and our beliefs all you want too but many of us really give a stuff about GW.
It is the extra greenhouse gases in the Earth's atmosphere which humans have released that thought to pose the biggest threat to Earth.
The global temperatures have risen by over nearly 0.7 in the last 300 years - this therefore does show that climate change is taking place.
Sea levels are no doubt rising globally, the artic sea is thinning and in some parts of the world the rainfall is getting heavier. Snow cover in the Northern hemisphere has declined since the 1960s.
To stabalise the climate change altogether we would need to reduce the emissions of CO2 by around nearly 70%. There is no way they are going to get to a minimal of 70%. But even reducing the greenhouse gases a bit the climate change will reduce slightly.
We are likely to see more precipitation which will increase fooding and will maybe effect us financially. As the gulf stream becomes weaker, therefore it then also may become less stable and possibly in the future shut down completely.
Climate researchers predict that climate will become warmer and in some parts colder than they should be. (like the post up above about winters, here in the uk it was predicted to be the coldest worse winter since 1963, then it changed to 1983, but that hasnt happened, and with spring probably round the corner i dont think it will. We havnt hardly had any snow just a flurry and temperatures arnt really dropping much either. We are expecting a cold blast this week, but nothing exciting.)
The climate change is likely to have an impact on the world and also the population. Will we or the our future generations be able to become adpeted to the changes also the plants and the animals.
Micko, the pollies pay the scientists and the scientists are clueless. I'll ignore Sonia as she hasnt offered any basis for her comments, reality is, nothing is changing, sea levels are not higher (could be the british isles are sinking, that'd make more sense) and ice still shrinks when it melts, hey, maybe that's why we are having droughts, the polar caps are melting, and the sky is falling. I'm a little tired of this thread, I think I'll leave it alone now.
Micko, the pollies pay the scientists and the scientists are clueless. I'll ignore Sonia as she hasnt offered any basis for her comments, reality is, nothing is changing, sea levels are not higher (could be the british isles are sinking, that'd make more sense) and ice still shrinks when it melts, hey, maybe that's why we are having droughts, the polar caps are melting, and the sky is falling. I'm a little tired of this thread, I think I'll leave it alone now.
I wouldnt dismiss Sonia so quickly. She has some valid points and I am sure can probably back them up (at least as well as anyone else anyway).
We are pumping CO2 into the atmostphere at an alarming rate, it is deadly (and if you dont believe this try sucking on the average car exhaust for a while), and it is adding to our problems. And cars arent the only source, look around at all the steel products you have, from cars, to boats, to pots and pans, steel is a massive producer of CO2, go look up the figures, any steel is in most things. So maybe you cry out that plastic is the answer, well yes there might be less CO2 but there is a lot of other crap produced from it (note here I have worked at plants that produce steel and plastic and know the topic well).
As for temperatures rising with no proof, well the simple answer is to go look at some glaciers, they are all shrinking. If you dont believe this go look for yourself, a good example is Switzerland (has an abundance of Glaciers) 150 years ago they were in Zermatt down to the local village, now they are no where in sight. Why? Well its getting warmer, and the funny thing is they only started shrinking when industrialisation came along...draw your own conclusion.
Its industiralisation that is causing this, and with countries like China now moving into the consumer market I think it will get worse before it gets better. Do I advocate going back to the stone age, well of course not, but we should put the emphasis on the production of materials in a clean and sustainable way, not just talking about it (as the pollies do) but actually doing it. Everyone says it cant be done but I suspect there just isnt the financial incentive to be bothered, try tying the senior executives wages to how much pollution they produce and see how quickly it drops.
Don't worry ........The yellowstone volcano when it goes off is several thousand times more powerful than Mt St Helens........ If this is one of the big eruptions then it could cover the entire world in ash and smoke and bring about an ice age.............
loved the volcanic show in 93' lunar eclipse
seen here from SA at DSTO Sailsbury June 4th.
was 1 of the most sensational events i've witnessed
I'll ignore Sonia as she hasnt offered any basis for her comments...
not very polite.
shredder:
Hi mate
just about the glaciers melting. how bout this cycle thoery that i mentioned previosly where by one looks at the planets history and notices the coming and going of ice ages. this would sugest that both icecaps and glaciers would have melted and reformed a few times since the "creation" of the planet... maybe its all just part of the cycle of life on the planet?
its hot...
it gets cold
we have an ice age
ice melts and it gets hot again
it gets cold
we have another ice age
ice melts again....
etc.
I did see this thoery somewhere and it would suggest we are in the end of the ice melting and getting hot phase. I dont claim to know much more than this of course
what do ya think?
I could try and dig up the article if ya like but I cant remember where i saw it.
at least the Sunshine Coast would disapear aprox 6Mt underwater 
along with all the foreigners and most of our Aussie grandparents thanks to NATURAL human intervention
