Subtle Difference ES68 v TVPan

[Profiler (Profiler)]

This may be viewed as a minor point but for those who are interested and not already aware I discovered today that the ES 68's are not really comparable clones/copies of TV Panoptics (unlike their 82's and 100's).

All TV Panoptics are designed on a 6 lens element configuration whereas the ES 68's are actually a 7 lens element design.

[Suzy]

I'm a 70deg fan, but alas I gave the 68deg a wide berth in favour of the 82deg which I'm contemplating buying (the 4.7mm). I've heard a long time ago they weren't in the same league.

Just still not enough comparative reviews out there on these eyepieces (the 82 & 100deg) for one to make a truly informed decision is there. Would love to know how they hold against a Baader Hyperion in a fast scope (forgetting about the fov difference, I'm talking about quality), but that's another topic all together, may have to resurrect an old thread of mine & bring it up.

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Well at 1/3 the price this isn't a surprise to me. Got to say though. The views through the Panoptics are pretty darn fine. Should be worth a premium.

[mercedes_sl1970]

Originally Posted by Suzy

I'm a 70deg fan, but alas I gave the 68deg a wide berth in favour of the 82deg which I'm contemplating buying (the 4.7mm). I've heard a long time ago they weren't in the same league.

Just still not enough comparative reviews out there on these eyepieces (the 82 & 100deg) for one to make a truly informed decision is there. Would love to know how they hold against a Baader Hyperion in a fast scope (forgetting about the fov difference, I'm talking about quality), but that's another topic all together, may have to resurrect an old thread of mine & bring it up.

Hi Suzy - not sure about the shorter focal lengths but this CN Review,which includes the 68 deg ES 24mm is quite comprehensive, and long... It comes up with some interesting findings - and makes the 24mm seem quite attractive. Have been considering it for binocular use where, for me, 68-70 deg is perfect.

Apologies if you have already seen the review.

Andrew

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Can you provide a link to the review as I have come across other references to it but can't seem to find it myself

[mercedes_sl1970]

Sorry if my link doesn't work. Here's another try: http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2729

Cheers

Andrew

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Thank you. Very interesting indeed.

[casstony]

WRT brightness, note that the Panoptic used in the CN review was a few years old and may not have had the latest coatings.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

I am still making my way through the review but the ES isn't the clear winner as it seem to be conveyed. It is certainly very good and indeed 'spectacular' when considered in the context of performance versus relative cost but it depends what are the parameters (in terms of use/targets) and costs to be considered. Additionally, there are some slips in the review as the ES 68 is, at least according to Opt Corp site, actually a 7 element EP not a 6 like the Pan.

[dannat (Daniel)]

From the Cn threads I've read the 68 deg are a tad better than the 82 deg ES in the med focal lengths eg 11&14 82 deg are inferior to the 16 mm 68

[Suzy]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for that link, and no I hadn't seen it before- quite comprehensive that's for sure. It's quite long and detailed so I had to stop short, will read the rest later on tonight.

Here's a CN review of the ES 4.7mm 82deg I'm contemplating on buying. Aye, been having this contemplation for the past 6mths, but it's crunch time now.
I realise you guys aren't talking about the 4.7mm, but I think this maybe worthy of attention (from the link I just gave)...

.... I spent time looking around the terminator (at Theophilus last night), and noticed that the ES has an issue with glare from bright objects out of the FOV. When looking at the bright lunar limb, there was a nice sharp defining line. But move away from the moon farther, and a bright reflection filled the view.
.... When I held my head back and looked at the exit pupil, it was easy to see that as soon as I moved the moon out of the view and the pupil went dark, a crescent reflection appeared around where the exit pupil had been. Checking the barrel end today, I noticed that the ring holding the bottom lens in place does not have any anti-reflection threads cut into it, and the chrome barrel filter threads are not blackened either.

I'm okay to make that compromise for the price of the ep and other good points it seems to have, price being one of them. It's mainly for splitting stars, observing the Homunculus in eta Carina and for bright dso's that can handle that magnification for times when I can go beyond my XW7mm. But the Baader still may win out for me on other points which I'm impressed with. Won't go into it here as I don't want to go off topic.

As Daniel stated below, and what I've always been led to believe, there can be differences in quality across different focal lengths which especially make themselves shown in fast scopes. The ES range confuses this issue more as they offer three (68, 82, 100) deg. fov's.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Suzy - why not the XW5mm over the ES? The general impression I get of the XW's is that they are hard to beat below 10mm. It is typically always better to take your time to save for a high quality EP than hunt around for compromises.

[MattT]

Tricky one isn't it Suzy? I had trouble justifying a 5mm XW and as much as I wanted to I knew it would not get much use. Other things to spend money on... Maybe you should start a thread along the lines of ....Are $300+ 5mm eyepieces really worth it when they sit in the eyepiece case for a long time, and see what comes out of that!
Having said that my 6.7 82 ES is fab can't really fault it, love to try it next to a Nagler one day just to reassure/ disappoint myself.
Matt

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Matt has got a good point - part of it also depends on what scope you have (in particular fl) and more importantly its quality. With top tier refractors you will use a 5mm all the time (I do at least for planetary) but with long fl reflectors etc Matt is right that it wouldn't get as much use due to magnification v sky conditions.

You already have the 7 & 10mm and as one IIS members signature notes 'life is too short to suffer bad glass". If you buy the XW you will never be wondering whether there was something else better 'if only' you had saved/spent a little more.

[MattT]

Profiler your right too about get the XW and your never left wondering if you did the right thing...aaarrgh if I had a 6" apo Id go for the a whole bunch of XW's ...while they are still around, Ive seen discussion on CN that they might not be making any more after the tsunami, sorry got off topic there Yes life is too short to look through bad glass..apologies Leon
Matt

[Profiler (Profiler)]

First - I can't take credit for the phrase about bad glass - I think it belongs to IIS member "The Mekon" from the old Dan Dare comics.

Now more importantly - to allay your concerns - it is only false rumours. Pentax released an official statement some months ago (some saw it - others didn't) but they are not discontinuing production of the XWs so they will be around for sometime to come.

Finally, you don't have to have a 6 inch refractor cannon to enjoy a 5mm or even 3.5 EP. If you have something like a NP101, TV-60, FS-60C these short focal lengths get plenty of use as do even amazingly shorter FL EPs like a 2-4mm Nagler zoom or LV2.5.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Bang on there Profiler , I love using my 2.5mm - 6mm LV's in my 355mm f/l Tak FS60c there is something special using that combo , and as Matt said do you really have to spend that money on one eyepiece? , but at the other end my 22mm and 24mm Pans are my most used eyepieces in all my scopes , nice . .
Brian.

Originally Posted by Profiler

First - I can't take credit for the phrase about bad glass - I think it belongs to IIS member "The Mekon" from the old Dan Dare comics.

Now more importantly - to allay your concerns - it is only false rumours. Pentax released an official statement some months ago (some saw it - others didn't) but they are not discontinuing production of the XWs so they will be around for sometime to come.

Finally, you don't have to have a 6 inch refractor cannon to enjoy a 5mm or even 3.5 EP. If you have something like a NP101, TV-60, FS-60C these short focal lengths get plenty of use as do even amazingly shorter FL EPs like a 2-4mm Nagler zoom or LV2.5.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

I love using my 2.5mm - 6mm LV's in my 355mm f/l Tak FS60c there is something special using that combo

I think it is the psychology of Lanthanum meeting true Fluorite working there Brian

[Gurutronic (Ernie)]

For what it's worth from the voice of someone still only 10 months into the hobby... I think that the ES series of eyepieces really do offer tremendous bang for the buck. So much so that I have, over the past 6 months gotten the 4.7, 6.7, 8.8 and 11mm in the 82 degree range and then the 16, 24 (x2), and 34 in the 68 degree range. The reason I got two 24's were that they really are great eyepieces and I wanted something relatively wide field for my finder scope. I would say however that I really love the 68 degree line for some reason.. I still remember looking through the 24mm when I first got it and thinking that suddenly I was viewing in High Def!!

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

You might be right there Profiler , there is something about this combo that works ...
Brian.

Originally Posted by Profiler

I think it is the psychology of Lanthanum meeting true Fluorite working there Brian