ITN: Unusual Pulsar Discovered

[bojan]

Originally Posted by CraigS

PS: Are you losin it when you start to answer your own questions ?

No.. that means you are actually using your grey matter

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

There is a simple way of refuting this relaxation oscillator nonsense, observation.

A relaxation oscillator or blinking star is emitting spherical radiation (ie radiation is being emitted in all directions), in a pulsar the beam of radiation is rotating around a perpendicular axis.

If the object in the Crab Nebula is a blinking star the spherical radiation will reflect off the surrounding dust and form light echoes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_echo

No such phenomena is observed!!!

Regards

Steven

Where did you get the relaxation oscillator is emitting spherically?

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Where did you get the relaxation oscillator is emitting spherically?

Seems this would be a reasonable assumption.

Its your model Alex .. can you tell us the shape you're assuming ?

We have so little to go on .. its up to you to describe it for us.

Cheers

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

Originally Posted by bojan

No way, Alex.
In the course of my work as RF engineer I simply know from 35+ years experience that NO tank circuity can provide such a stability - it never happened and it never will. And there are many good theoretical analysis available on many web pages and textbooks on this issue.
If a tank circuit is for you a good enough explanation for frequency stability, then I'm afraid I must say you don't know what you are talking about.

lets explore it then, because i see some very big differences between your and stevens projected assumptions and the literature of alfven, peratt, etc.

Originally Posted by bojan

As I mentioned earlier (in another thread ? ) the most stable frequency-wise electronic oscillators have MECHANICAL control elements (crystals) which are stable enough and and have Q-factor high enough to provide reasonable stability. Atomic clocks are way better (and better than pulsars), but they are not electronics oscillators in principle..

A mechanical or resonant component to the discharge is aknowledged as a potential contributor, pulsars are turning out to be observed as closely orbiting binaries. Thornhill has hypothesis a fission process.

Originally Posted by bojan

Your relaxation oscillator (with discharge tube) is tens of orders on magnitude worse it terms of stability than quartz oscillators..
On the other hand, fast rotating object is a good explanation of such phenomena.. much, much better model than relaxation oscillator, anyway.

Except it invents new physics beyond any experimental verification. Can you send me a link for a gravitationally bound neutron matter experiment? Better still, an experiment of any stable confinement of neutrons.

Originally Posted by bojan

Of course, if we assume that pulsars are electronics oscillators.. with external power etc.. why not conclude immediately that they are actually beacons built by advanced civilisations.. to help their space fleet to navigate through Galaxy :-) (BTW, this may be helpful one day for humans as well.. and it won't matter if pulsars are artificial, or rotating or whatever their nature may be).

Like Paul La Violette? I can't say i'm convinced but it's an interesting hypothesis.

Originally Posted by bojan

Now,double layers..
How the discharge can happen UNIFORMLY throughout the whole thing (of stellar size !!), and in REPEATABLE way, every time..(again, with (observed !!) accuracy better than 10^-13 !!!!!) Did you think about recovery process? How it is possible that it is so fast (milliseconds... and that could tell us also something about its size.. what do you think, how big (or small) this system is? ) ?

No this is not proposed, you inserted a UNIFORMLY dispersed discharge assumption. Steven inserted spherical emission. This is not in any part of the literature.

nice try.

Originally Posted by bojan

Discharge is VERY chaotic process.. just look at lightning. You never know when and where it will strike. Far from being repeatable.

Yes lets look at lightning, lets look at the waveform match of an arc-mode plasma discharge. Match.

[CraigS]

I was just re-reading up on the Wiki double plasma reference you left us with the other day, also. I notice that the relativistic jets of pulsars can form double plasma layers and thus behave as a capacitor. There must be plasma around these objects but as far as them not being massive .. ??
In your model, what causes the plasma to gather to form a capacitance layer?

Cheers

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Except it invents new physics beyond any experimental verification. Can you send me a link for a gravitationally bound neutron matter experiment?

Can you send a link which shows a scaled down lab experiment for the pulsar/double layer capacitor ? Given that the field strengths or most plasma behaviour parameters cannot be scaled down because the magnitudes cannot be simulated in the lab (according to PC/Wiki link you sent the other day).

Yes lets look at lightning, lets look at the waveform match of an arc-mode plasma discharge. Match.

If its working in 'arc mode', where's the synchrotron emission spectra for ALL pulsars/neutron stars ?? (I can only confirm such for M1).


Seriously though, I can see that plasma capacitors playing a major role in the relativistic jets, but something has to have caused these. I cannot yet understand (I don't think you've explained) where these come from in the first place ? Or am I missing something ?

Cheers
PS: Did Harry Costas get lynched (also) following his comment the other day ?

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

I was just re-reading up on the Wiki double plasma reference you left us with the other day, also. I notice that the relativistic jets of pulsars can form double plasma layers and thus behave as a capacitor. There must be plasma around these objects but as far as them not being massive .. ??
In your model, what causes the plasma to gather to form a capacitance layer?

Cheers

Craig plasma makes up 99.99% of the universe by volume. It's everywhere we've sent probes. Ofcourse the pulsar has plasma all around it this is part of both models.

"in my model what causes the plasma to gather to form a capacitance layer"
No this is a property of double layers and plasma, to capacitive.

What causes the gathering? Again... this is a property of plasma and electric currents...

What causes the plasma to "gather" when you turn on a plasma ball?
(hint, happens when you plug it in)

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Where did you get the relaxation oscillator is emitting spherically?

And how else it can emit except in all directions???

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Except it invents new physics beyond any experimental verification. Can you send me a link for a gravitationally bound neutron matter experiment? Better still, an experiment of any stable confinement of neutrons.

Nice try, mate.
Exceptional observation results need exceptional (but still plausible) explanations...
However, I am still waiting for your experimental verification of frequency stable relaxation oscillator (even 1ppm (10^-6) will do as a start... from there it will be a piece of cake to reach 10^-13.. just 7 orders of magnitude to go ).

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Yes lets look at lightning, lets look at the waveform match of an arc-mode plasma discharge. Match.

Match? I don't think so. And this is not what I asked/hinted.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Craig plasma makes up 99.99% of the universe by volume. It's everywhere we've sent probes. Ofcourse the pulsar has plasma all around it this is part of both models.

"in my model what causes the plasma to gather to form a capacitance layer"
No this is a property of double layers and plasma, to capacitive.

What causes the gathering? Again... this is a property of plasma and electric currents...

What causes the plasma to "gather" when you turn on a plasma ball?
(hint, happens when you plug it in)

So in the context of a pulsar/magnetar, what causes the double layering in that specific vicinity ?

Cheers

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

z-pinch

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

z-pinch

But why in that specific location ? Why not somewhere else ?

Cheers

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Craig plasma makes up 99.99% of the universe by volume. It's everywhere we've sent probes. Ofcourse the pulsar has plasma all around it this is part of both models.

"in my model what causes the plasma to gather to form a capacitance layer"
No this is a property of double layers and plasma, to capacitive.

What causes the gathering? Again... this is a property of plasma and electric currents...

What causes the plasma to "gather" when you turn on a plasma ball?
(hint, happens when you plug it in)

It is not good enough to say "it is a property of plasma.."

However it seems it's a property of Alex to say and write such things ..

[CraigS]

HEy Alex;

Could you turn off invisibility mode so we can see your name in the member's list … and use this to give you a chance to respond ??
I've got so many questions for ya .. don't want to swamp ya.

Cheers
PS: We won't bite ya !! (Too hard anyway ) … also gives us a chance to go and do other important things .. once you go .. like lunch , coffee, work, life, etc ..

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

z-pinch

Z pinch also requires high field strengths … either from an external source or self induced by the plasma. So which is it that causes it in your model ?

Cheers

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

Where did you get the relaxation oscillator is emitting spherically?

Alex,

This is a perfect example why a pseudoscience such as yours implodes under it's own contradictions.

Novae are relaxation oscillators (according to EU proponents)
Novae embedded in gas and dust are observed with light echoes.
Light echoes are the result of spherical radiation.

Conclusion: Relaxation oscillators must emit spherical radiation.

Yet pulsars do not exhibit light echos. So they cannot be relaxation oscillators as they do not emit spherical radiation.

Of course since your philosophy is to deny that anything new can be discovered and everything in the Universe is explained via engineering principles you can put a giant reflector behind the oscillator to get the desired result.

Regards

Steven

[CraigS]

As another aside (until Alex responds), I found yet another interesting paper published in 2003 by an F. C. Michel called "The State of Pusar Theory".
Be warned .. the guy who wrote this paper has a big agenda. I haven't quite figured out what it is, just yet. (So please don't complain about the spin orientation).

The paper starts off philosophically (the opposite of most of our threads). He distinguishes what he's observed over his years of involvement in Pulsar work:

1. Searching for the quick kill (theorists).
2. Maintaining community solidarity (observers).
3. Exaggerate even the smallest incremental advance.
4. Indifferent to theoretical disputes.
5. Much of pulsar data are private.
6. No one can correctly assume that their “new” idea is actually new.

The paper is actually about plasma circulations in the poles/equatorial regions of pulsars.

It was a controversial issue in 2003 and it is clearly maintains this status thru to today.

Cheers

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Z pinch also requires high field strengths … either from an external source or self induced by the plasma. So which is it that causes it in your model ?

Cheers

Yes, this is the EU model. Intergalactic currents --> galactic current circuit --> electric star

see Alfven's galactic circuit model, also see Alfvens stellar circuit

This was later expanded by Jeurgens to the ES.

Bite all you want, they are not my models, they are model developed from professional scientists and engineers, which yes are different to gravity dominated cosmology. I totally aknowledge it may cause some with particular 'schooling' some discomfort.

If you prefer strange matter, quark stars, neutron stars etc... then all the best to you, i'd just like to see some lab verification of these processes.

PS: Costa's has some interesting papers on phase transitions and condensed matter, although as you see they are currently void of an explanation for these observations. ES expects them.

[Jarvamundo (Alex)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Alex,

This is a perfect example why a pseudoscience such as yours implodes under it's own contradictions.

Novae are relaxation oscillators (according to EU proponents)
Novae embedded in gas and dust are observed with light echoes.
Light echoes are the result of spherical radiation.

Conclusion: Relaxation oscillators must emit spherical radiation.

Yet pulsars do not exhibit light echos. So they cannot be relaxation oscillators as they do not emit spherical radiation.

Of course since your philosophy is to deny that anything new can be discovered and everything in the Universe is explained via engineering principles you can put a giant reflector behind the oscillator to get the desired result.

Regards

Steven

yet another perfect example of gross misconceptions.

"Novae are relaxation oscillators (according to EU proponents) "

Again where do you get this? How is this sentence remotely logical? sources?

Novae is a result of a star under immense electrical stress... it is an exploding double layer.

How could this possibly be in a resonant electrical state? (relaxation oscillator). It's nothing like one?

So so far off the page...

Best,
Alex

[CraigS]

G'Day Alex;

What's a Gamma Ray Burst (GRB) in EU/PC speak ?

Cheers

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by Jarvamundo

If you prefer strange matter, quark stars, neutron stars etc... then all the best to you, i'd just like to see some lab verification of these processes.

Do you think lab verification of double layer plasma relaxation oscillators is possible ?
What would be the test conditions of these ?

(Not having a go at you here .. I just can't understand how this model can exist in EU/PC, given the magnitudes of field strengths required for it all. Ie: as per my previous comments re: unfeasibility of plasma experiment scaling).

Cheers