Here's a lil challenge for some, a revisit for others, charts included
Should easily be obtainable with an 8" newt from rural skies
sitting at around 12.8(var) magnitude
This object is approx' 1.9 billion lyrs away, although I have seen
later estimates of up to 2.9 billion lyrs away. You can sit and
wonder what was happening on Earth at the time the light thats
hitting your retna started it's journey, molecular life was yet to
begin.
So when someone asks what the most distance thing you have seen
through your scope, you throw the above figures at them
regards,CS
Rob
Last edited by CoombellKid; 17-06-2006 at 07:27 AM.
3C 273 is an awsome object. While you are starring at this object just try to comprehend how far 2 Billion light years away is? and it is moving away from us at 23% the speed of light (I will check that figure).
The Quasar can bee seen from an urban location with a 250mm Dob quite easily and with a 120mm refractor with patience.
NP's guy's enjoy... there's a hol'lota chaos going over there
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickoking
While you are starring at this object just try to comprehend how far 2 Billion light years away is? and it is moving away from us at 23% the speed of light (I will check that figure).
One of things that really amazes me with astronomy is un-imaginable
distances at which objects are located. And be able to see them from
my own backyard
I made an observing report on this object last year, without receiving one comment?
I know the feeling
Rob states that 3C 273 is variable. When I last viewed it on the 21st of may the mag was 12.4. Its amazing when you think of the processes that create that variability, huge chunks of gas being ripped from stars and brightening in the massive accreation disc surrounding an object smaller than our solar system.
3C 273 is moving away from us at 16% the speed of light, 47840000 metres per sec (47840 KM/S)
............and accelerating.
While I was out last night revisiting 3C 273 and thinking of the fact that is
moving away from us at 16% the speed of light, 47840000 metres per sec
(47840 KM/S) as mentioned above. Then light traveling from 3C 273 to
my retina must be traveling at 86% of the speed of light, right?
As would be the case say if we were instead located on the opposite side
of 3C 273 so it was traveling towards us at 16% the speed of light. Then
light from 3C 273 would be hitting my retina at the speed of light plus 16%
and not taking into account that we now know or suspect that the speed
of light is variable.
Light always travels at the speed of light (300 million metres / second) regardless of the motion of the observer or the source! This is the basis of Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity. And this is why, by our everyday experience, weird things happen when things travel fast. Time slows down, lengths contract etc. This is why clocks on satellites run just a little slower, and also why Charlton Heston ages only a few months in the space ship while human civilisation has time to collapse as apes rise to rule the world.
Thanks Rob!! That is a hell of a long way away!! I'll check it out as soon as the clouds bugger off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkler
Seds states that this object has a luminosity approximately 100 times that of our entire milky way galaxy
We're not disputing the spead light travels at. The very fact that it has
a speed limit mean it is also restricted to having to take time to travel
from one location to another. Hence if it is fired from an object moving
away from us that is also doing 16% of the speed of light. It seems
logical that it must have some impact on it's speed relative to say
an inanimate object in space, however it would be doing the speed of
light relative to the position and motion of 3C 273 at the time it was fired.
Secondly, Robs map seems to be flipped in both vertical and horizontal planes, meaning the map will represent the eyepiece view in a newtonian
Thanks Geoff,
This is true the charts were designed as view through an EP on a newt.
I originally was using a wide angle ep to star hop to 3C 273 via Gamma
Virginis taking in galaxies NGC 4527 & 4536
Light travels at the same speed relative to all frames of reference: you, the quasar other objects moving however fast in whatever direction. They all see the same speed for the same beam of light. There is no adding or subtracting or otherwise combining the speeds of the light the source and the observer, like you might think. The speed is the same for all! It goes against everyday "common sense" but "common sense" is plain wrong in this case, or to put it more eloquently: "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" (Albert Einstein).
Light travels the same speed with respect to all frames of reference irrespective of their motion. This is a most revealing observation and shocks people when they comprehend the meaning of this statement for the first time, but that's how nature does it.
While 3C 273 is moving away from us at 16% the speed of light, the light from the Quasar is still travelling to Earth at 100% the speed of light (299000KM/S). However the light is 'stretched' into a longer wavelength which is known as Redshift.
Light travels at the same speed relative to all frames of reference: you, the quasar other objects moving however fast in whatever direction. They all see the same speed for the same beam of light. There is no adding or subtracting or otherwise combining the speeds of the light the source and the observer, like you might think. The speed is the same for all! It goes against everyday "common sense" but "common sense" is plain wrong in this case, or to put it more eloquently: "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" (Albert Einstein).
Light travels the same speed with respect to all frames of reference irrespective of their motion. This is a most revealing observation and shocks people when they comprehend the meaning of this statement for the first time, but that's how nature does it.
Dear fellow members, Steve is correct. If anyone is interested for a further explanation / clarification, the following references may be consulted. They require late high school / early tertiary mathematics. They are arranged in order of increasing mathematical difficulty.
1. The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Vol I, Feynman, Leighton, Sands, Pearson / Addison Wesley
2. Gravity from the ground up, an introductory guide to gravity and special relativity, Bernard Schultz, Cambridge.
3. Gravity, An introduction to Einstein's general relativity, James B. Hartle, Addison Wesley
And by the way, if anyone thinks that special relativity is common non-sensical he or she should look up quantum mechanics. Very interesting aspects of quantum mechanics are its statistical nature, the dual nature of light, the wave nature of matter and especially the Uncertainty Principle. But do not dispair, even the founders of quantum mechanics clearly state that no body can understand it, that is from the common sense point of view.
Has anyone viewed this thru a 10 inch dob from suburbia?
What do you make out?
Hi Suzy, It's about mag 12.8 so will be visible in a 10". It'll look exactly like a star so you'll need detailed charts of the area to positively identify it.
Last edited by pgc hunter; 25-02-2012 at 10:49 AM.
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