Time to emigrate....

[Peter Ward]

Want to use a laser pointer? Morris Iemma wants to legislate it as a criminal offence with a possible 14 year sentence.

If this doesn't depress you...not much will. I'm seriously thinking it's time to become an ex-pat

Australians are seemingly too apathetic (or possibly stupid) to care anymore.

This is what can happen if you use a laser pointer without a permit.....

Police can exercise any of these powers:

· Direct a person not to enter and prevent a person from entering;
· Direct a person to leave or remove a person who fails to comply with such a direction;
· Prevent a person from removing evidence or interfering with the crime scene, and for that purpose detain and search the person;
· Prevent a person from removing evidence or interfering with the crime scene;
· Remove obstructions from the scene.
· Perform any necessary investigation, including searches and inspections;
· Conduct examinations or processes;
· Open any thing that is locked;
· Take electricity gas or other utilities;
· Take photographs and conduct searches;
· Seize things that may be evidence of the commission of an offence;
· Dig up anything;
· Remove walls, ceilings, floors or panels of vehicles; and
· Perform any other function reasonably necessary.


A declaration of a crime scene could result in the complete abrogation of all the personal and property rights of anyone connected with a property declared by any police officer to be a crime scene. On suspicion, a police officer could, and inevitably will, use the section to create a crime scene rather than apply for a search warrant.


The Nazi's could not have done better...


(I pulled/paraphrased these notes by Andrew Haesler SC, NSW Deputy Senior Public Defender)

P.S. Yes, all this for the possibility of shining a bright light in someones eyes! That are nucking futs!

[Bassnut (Fred)]

umm, so as a pilot, laser threat doesnt bother you?, why not?.

I understand if you have a good use for one your OK (eg scope collimation). I really dont care if they are legal or not, its not the end of the world, and the police are hardly likely to bother you or even know if you have one to align yr scope. If its a saftey concern, and better for all of us to not allow hi power lasers, so be it, yawn. For those that find a hi power laser fundamental to there existance, get a life, get yr rocks off doing something else .

[astroron (Ron)]

You can have politicians taking bribes, public servants going to bed with developers and they try to weedle out of doing anything.
What a load of over reaction from pilots, and Peter I know you are one!
After following the threads on this subjects on this site one can see that it is a b****Y great beat up.
Welcome to the fourth Riech
Ron

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

umm, so as a pilot, laser threat doesnt bother you?, why not?.

I understand if you have a good use for one your OK (eg scope collimation). I really dont care if they are legal or not, its not the end of the world, and the police are hardly likely to bother you or even know if you have one to align yr scope. ........

Hello Fred,

I have been "laser flashed" on approach into both Hong Kong and Sydney. It was a total non-event....the comment we made was, as I recall, "some ******** down there has a laser"....a far cry from "oh my god I can't see!!"

I find people who don't dip their car's high beam far more of a hazard.

But the fact that legislation exists to detain me, my family &
destroy my house while searching for "evidence" is very scary stuff....

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

I agree with Peter to a degree. Our country, with its wall-to-wall "leaders" of singular political persuasion have deemed our country to be full of mindless twits who need to be over-governed for our own good.

I had a bunch of foreign visitors here a while ago who's parting comment was "is there anything you're actually allowed to do in this country?"

Hmm... they're probably right.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

i cant see the legislation doing that much, ban guns and only criminals will have guns.

a licence is attainable although it could be a hassle, and for those wanting such can do this.

Of course it annoys me we need a licence/ permit to do just about anything these days,

Go fishing from a beach,
cut down a tree
own a dog,
put in a driveway,
build a dam,
own a gun,
run a chook raffle,
build a shed
have a fire
own a cat
use communication equipment (shortwave etc)
fill the dam you just built,
own a car that can be used on the road ( registration required)
Collect swords
use laser pointers
keep native birds (have done wildlife rescue)


theres talk of people who collect rainwater needing to pay a fee ( hasnt happened yet.

Next they willl charge us to breathe

good to have gripe every now and then, it still is a good place to live in compared to zimbabwe, and other such places though.

[tornado33]

They say that astronomy enthuiasts can apply for a "prohibited weapon". I bet that
1 the process is extremely convoluted and
2 Permits wont be free.

In Vic the only way a laser pointer can be used with astronomy sessions is to be fixed to the telescope NOT hand held, which is silly as using them hand held at viewing nights is the best way to point out objects in the sky to people.

I actually bought my pointer becasue I could see the writing on the wall, and wanted one before they became illegal, I have no intention of handing it in, which leads to another issue, theres no talk of an amnesty, they arent asking for laser owners to hand them in and offer money to do so. My 100 mw laser is bright enough to make a good pointer of astronomical objects at night.

The good thing about lasers is the visible beams can only be easily seen close to the beam axis, from a distance away its very hard to see, so unless I shine it at aircraft or people, no one will be able to locate the source of the beam. The idiots causing the problems do the above but will be long gone by time the beam source is pinpointed

Anyway on principle, id actually go to jail before giving up my laser.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

OK, thanks Peter, that makes a difference, its the 1st real world indication Ive had outside the media what the effect really is, very interesting.

[Rodstar (Rod)]

I think it is reasonable to bring in some controls over the use of laser pointers.

I am glad that Peter's experience has been that it was a non-issue, but legislation of this sort does not get off the ground unless there is some science to it.

I have not seen the detail of the bill, but I do understand, as others have indicated above, that a licence will be available for amateur astronomers. I also understand that the controls will only apply to laser pointers over a particular strength, such that there may well be a compromise available which is not so bright, but still serves the purpose, without requiring a licence.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

a licence is attainable although it could be a hassle, and for those wanting such can do this.

Sorry, I think that's a cop-out. To own something that was perfectly legal, then have to toss it, or get a permit (lord knows we pay enough tax) because of the sheer ineptitude of our Sir Humphry's advice and dimness of our "yes" Ministers's response to inappropriate use (.....and I stress....not one...say again... not one... safety incident has resulted from a laser being pointed at an aircraft...) beggars belief.

But it goes beyond that.....if you say "stuff them I'll use it anyway", you can legally have your home invaded, searched, property destroyed and be interned for 14 years !!! All for having a bright light???

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Rodstar

I am glad that Peter's experience has been that it was a non-issue, but legislation of this sort does not get off the ground unless there is some science to it.

Sorry Rod....you are mistaken....this has been covered elsewhere on ISS....the science was indeed lacking.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

[quote=Peter Ward;318021]Sorry, I think that's a cop-out. [quote]

probably; but i guess i cant change it, so apart from a quick rant thats about it for me.

[Peter Ward]

[quote=Alchemy;318027]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Sorry, I think that's a cop-out. quote]

probably; but i guess i cant change it, so apart from a quick rant thats about it for me.

There is the rub. As individuals we can't change it. But how any of us have actually written to our local member and said , enough is enough?

Don't care?

And so we get the politicians we deserve....

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I agree with Peter to a degree. Our country, with its wall-to-wall "leaders" of singular political persuasion have deemed our country to be full of mindless twits who need to be over-governed for our own good.

I had a bunch of foreign visitors here a while ago who's parting comment was "is there anything you're actually allowed to do in this country?"

Hmm... they're probably right.

yeah one thing we arent allowed to do is invade foriegn countries willy nilly on false pretences and then nearly send your country broke paying for it they should ban that maybe?

[skwinty (Steve)]

Well, it seems that too much legislation can be a bad thing especially if the enforcement side of the law is up to scratch.
Here in South Africa we have the so called "finest constitution in the world",
legislation up the ying yang which favours the criminal more than the victim.
The president of the country is not suitable for the post unless he has a criminal record. Crime is out of control and law enforcement is almost non existant. If for example you get pulled over for a traffic offence, show them the colour of your money and away you go.
Quite frankly, I would trade places with you guys in an instant if I could.
I would rather live in an Australian police state than an African police state.

[alan meehan (Alan)]

fancy that .ASTRONOMY and PROHIBITED weapon all in one sentance we have been complaining for years about light pollution and nothing is done some idiots shine alaser pointer at aircraft and they ban them ,i wonder if we all direct our steet lights sky ward would we get the same reponse

[astroron (Ron)]

All as the police and security people in this country have to do is make a complaint and the politicians fall over themselves to to make a law.
Try to make a change about the big end of town and sweet Fanny Addams gets done
Ron

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

How are these laws going to apply to laser collimators and similar low level output devices?

Any ideas - too early to tell!?

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by alan meehan

fancy that .ASTRONOMY and PROHIBITED weapon all in one sentance....

Yeah Alan we're gonna have to start doing this stuff under the cover of darkness!!

[Peter Ward]

To see the seer stupidity of this legislation, you need to ask only one question:

Can a battery powered laser really have any hope to bring down an aircraft?

(OK you...might...annoy the pilot..my personal sample of one didn't find any need to crash and burn)

If you answered yes...then I'll ask another question.

Why, after spending billions of $US dollars, did the Regan "StarWars" defense system get canned? (a big hint...it didn't work? duh?....)