recommending scope to beginners

[Starkler (Geoff)]

What do you say to a raw beginner who says they want to buy a scope and do astrophotography?

I think most would be shocked to hear what it really costs to do it well and I have a few thoughts on this topic and that this might make for an interesting discussion.

If the person is a raw beginner and had never owned a scope before, I would still recommend a cheap dob as a first scope even if they do state astrophotography as a goal.

Why?
A worthwhile AP setup is going to cost serious coin and a starters setup is likely to be something like an ed80 plus SLR camera on a medium quality eq mount. This will cost multiple times what a 8" dob would. Such an AP setup is IMO not very inspiring for visual as compared to what can be seen with say an 8" dob.

IMO get the cheap dob first and learn a little about using a telescope. Become accustomed to the sky, being cold, good and bad seeing conditions and actually getting to see something, and then if still keen later go the whole hog on the AP setup. If visual does anything for them at all, they will want to keep the dob as well.

Thoughts?

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

I'd say get a dob, a tracking platform, a toUcam and start with the moon and the planets. If they still like it after that then they can go up and onwards. If they don't.....wellll....they still have the dob, don't they Plus they can sell the tracking platform and buy some decent eyepieces.

But if they are really serious then an 8" f5 or faster newt on a HEQ5 with a small cheap refractor for a guidescope and DSLR (an old 300D would be as cheap as chips these days,) with a Webcam would be the way to go. The expense is not minimal but not prohibitive either and they are all items that could be easily disposed of if they lose interest. Plus add in a decent 3x or more barlow and planetary imaging is within reach as well.

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Leaving aside the fact that I know absolutely nothing about astrophotography...

I think the first bit of advice I'd give is before you buy anything to visit with and observe with someone (or several people) who is (are) knowledgable on the subject.

Too often I read/hear about people new to the hobby who rush out and start buying stuff which that may not need or that is inappropriate for their interests...

There is no substitute for experience (your own or someone elses)...heck, I'd give the same advice to visual folks too...

Maybe a law should be passed to ahve some kind of "cooling off" or waiting period before astro gear can be purchased?

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

I've seen ads for these "digital microscopes", i.e. some simple microscope with a built in webcam designed to link via USB to a 'puter and to be viewed only via a monitor. I want one, even though I recognize the likely limitations. Just seems like it'd be a fun toy to play with for a while.

Seems to me the time might be ripe for something similar apropos telescopes. I.e. the "digital telescope" aimed purely at the budding astrophotographer. (Mainly as a tool to weed out those who wouldn't want to make the bigger effort and expense of a genuine commitment to what we all know is really required for decent results.) Now, I'm no astrophotographer, but if I saw something like that in an Australian Geographic shop I'd be sorely tempted, even knowing the likely limitations...

[mick pinner]

one of if not the main problem with starting Astronomy and moving into Astrophotography is that the initial scopes that people are directed towards so that they can see a reasonable ammount of objects are not suitable for photo work without a substancial financial outlay.
Newbies are still being directed towards Dobs as entry level scopes, low cost/large aperature and fair enough too.
When the photo bug bites reality bites too....
A simple run down.... let's assume we already have a 10" dob....
Upgrade to min mount for astrophotography $2500.00
Laptop or computer for image processing $1200.00
Second hand Canon 350D $750.00
A filter or two $400.00
El chepo 80mm refractor with webcam for guiding $400.00
Assorted cables and maybe some software (cheap) $300.00
Around $6000.00 give or take, sure a webcam stuck in the old dob will give us some moonage and one or two planets but even this is not easy to produce good images especially for a newbie and it rules out DSO's, oops sorry except for Ken of course.
l don't know what the best solution is but it does beg discussion so we can at least try to direct the new guys and gals the best we can although l must agree with Wavelandscott get some hands on experience with someone who has already tread the rocky road to Astrophotography.

[mill (Martin)]

Astrophotography needs dedication and determination, for beginners it is a very steep learning curve.
Buying a dob at least get you in astronomy and teaches you the sky.
If you want to go into astrophotography the dob can be sold to fund the expensive gear needed.
A lot of beginners start expensive and loose interest because it is a too steep learning curve.
Starting with a dob is less expensive and gives instant gratification.
Any beginner starting with a expensive fluorite and gem is asking for trouble (too much to learn in a short time).
So if a beginner starts with a dob and finds out he/she doesn't like astronomy then not much is lost money wise.

[mick pinner]

l agree mill, but what we see a lot is someone getting into the hobby buying a dob and then wanting to do photography almost immediately only to be given the bad news that they are limited to a few solar system objects.
Maybe buying a few good books on the subject would save some money in the long run.

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by mick pinner

... Around $6000.00 give or take,.....

Gulp! But I'm not really surprised. Looks like it's the webcam stuck into the old dob, and short focal length widefields with a camera on a simple RA tracking mount for me for the foreseeable future!

[mill (Martin)]

Yes Mick books and going to a meeting would be a better idea before buying anything.
It is very easy to get sucked in and find out that what you have bought is no good or needs more so it will become a very expensive hobby.
Now i think of it, binoculars would be the cheapest option and can be used day or night.
Relatively cheap and usable anytime.
Also asking for advice and looking on the web will prevent you from making the biggest mistake, buying from a department store or Ebay.

[g__day (Matthew)]

I'd query if they'd chance remote guiding? Rather than drop $6,000 on a barely capable rig, spend a few hundred renting a $50,000 set-up in Chile, maybe after imaging on pro gear at say Magellan first, then hit the big time.

Just another option!

[Ric]

Nothing beats research in my books, There is an amazing amount of info on the web. Then there's books, magazines and plenty of forums as well, not to mention your local astronomy clubs.
This is all valuable info to help make the right decisions as what you want and what it is going to cost.

Cheers