What happens in worlds similar to ours
I can't get my head around it all.
ID how can you pretend any intelligence when we have this stuff almost as the norm
i have lost faith with all humanity on this planet.We have wars all over the world. we have passenger planes being blown out of the sky. Next it will atomic bombs. Time to end our existence on this planet.
One really does have to ask why the hell were passenger RPT flights even allowed over Ukraine airspace, especially given the past week of military aircraft shoot downs? INSANE! Sure, fuel considerations aside, I would be considering track diversions to avoid Ukraine FIR at all costs, and any responsible airline would do so. Certainly a Captain COULD also decide on track diversions, despite company edicts.
The latest recorded intel suggests that the action may have been deliberate, the perpetrators believing the aircraft WAS military, until they were told it's true identity.
i have lost faith with all humanity on this planet.We have wars all over the world. we have passenger planes being blown out of the sky. Next it will atomic bombs. Time to end our existence on this planet.
i have lost faith with all humanity on this planet.We have wars all over the world. we have passenger planes being blown out of the sky. Next it will atomic bombs. Time to end our existence on this planet.
I am of the complete opposite, I have full faith in humanity to overcome any challenge put in front of them. It is time to celebrate our existence on this planet. It is only through adversity that our species has risen to the challenge.
I took an Emirates flight over that region of eastern Ukraine on my way to St Petersburg from Dubai about a month ago. Yikes, not something you'd ever imagine would happen... Shocking.
Last edited by Amaranthus; 18-07-2014 at 05:27 PM.
the perpetrators believing the aircraft WAS military, until they were told it's true identity.
That's not credible. It was normal for several dozen civilian (international) planes to fly over Ukraine daily and the assholes that did this knew that - they'd all be visible on military radar as plain as the proverbial. And following well established routes, cruising in linear trajectories at 10,000 m altitude it's pretty obvious they aren't military.
IMHO this was a blatant attempt to do two things:
a) harm Ukraine financially, by causing all international air traffic to be diverted away. The point is that the airlines pay countries like Ukraine to fly in their airspace, and was a nice income for them for free. Well, the attack has achieved this much.
b) The Cold War mentality is very much alive and kicking in Russia and the hardline lunatics are itching to see how much they can get away with before the west will retaliate in any way.
It's clear the west wasn't going to get involved in Ukraine, whatever happens, but by murdering civilians on an international plane flight it's hard to see how the west can sit and do nothing.
It's clear the west wasn't goi to get involved in Ukraine, whatever happens, but by murdering civilians on an international plane flight it's hard to see how the west can sit and do nothing.
Your last point is actually interesting, as it only serves one side for the "west" to get involved.
Your last point is actually interesting, as it only serves one side for the "west" to get involved.
Not so sure. I think the hardliners are trying to use this as a bargaining chip to force the Ukraine into submission - unification with Russia, or face the consequenses of a war involving the west fought on their soil.
If the hardliners can drag the west into an assault they're well aware the usual US pattern is aerial bombardment to demolish all infrastructure, then decide what happens next. It's a massive loss to the civilians of the Ukraine.
The question is whether the Ukraine will risk all to save its "independence", or surrender to the Russians in order to preserve what they have. Or invite the CIA in to fight a clandestine war. Didn't work very well in Asia, Afghanistan, or Iraq...
If Russia did it, or Russian sympathisers did it, what do they achieve except condemnation and retaliation? If a mistake, then, albeit horrific, it is a mistake, perpetrated in a war zone. This entails the Russian sympathisers have access to the SAM systems, not the shoulder launched "Stinger" class, as they simply do not have the range.
If the Ukraine did it, claiming the Russians did it, they gain condemnation against the Russians and potential support from the west. A hopelessly pathetic short-sighted way to gain attention, and one that will inevitably back fire on them.
Will the US start retaliatory actions? I sincerely doubt it. US has NOTHING material to gain from Ukraine - a bankrupt, now-resource poor country, and we all know the US is far from humanitarian- they always need SOMETHING, so what do they get? They get airbases, military infrastructure right next door to Russia, in central Europe. They've lost Turkey, Germany and a bunch of other countries, and The World Police need a staging ground.
And what does the Ukraine get in return? Money, protection... everything it is short of.
