Meade LX90 10", my final straw.

Zincberg (Andrew) · #1 16-10-2011, 10:30 PM

In october of last year, I outlaid what was left of a broken marriage..and purchased a Meade lx90 10".
I had been interested in astronomy from a very young age, and although had owned a number of "telescope shaped devices" had never taken my telescope ownership very seriously.

Things were going to change now!!!.. I owned a MEADE!!! I was so happy, having a desire for Photography as well, I decided to mix the two and get into Astrophotography, this meant, of course, purchasing a wedge and all the other little nicknaks and doowhickies that would allow me to get some nice images.

If I knew then...what I know now... I would have saved myself 12 months of heartache!

(dont worry...this story has a point...and a question.. skip to the bottom if Im boring you..)

Within the first 6 months of purchase, the scope went back to its place of purchase 6 times, we had 3 faulty RA motors, one clutch replacement, and one DEC motor replacement.. not to mention all the visits just to find all the problems as well as countless hours on the internet in yahoo groups and on email back and forth trying to work out if there was something I was doing wrong... there wasnt. As far as I am concerned, I got a lemon. ( at last count.. its been back to be repaired 8 times..each time with LEGITIMATE faults.)
Recently..and after 2 months of not using my scope, ( it wasnt fun anymore, every time I got it out, it had another issue or problem..and I was losing interest at a rate of knots), I decided to buy a NEQ6 to photograph through my ED80, and was plesantly surprised that although the hand controller isnt anywhere near as operatable as the Meade, everything else is absolutely wonderful. I then added a B250 10" ota to my setup..and was so pleased that I could photograph without the pain of the set up of the Meade, without the PEC problems of the Meade, without the innaccurate slewing of the Meade...actually...without the Meade altogether!
(its coming...hold your horses)
So I took my Meade in for its final repair... I swore to myself that I was not going to cart this telescope in for warranty repairs ever again, if it couldnt be fixed, I was done with it.
Well, last night I got it out...set it all up and guess what?... MORE PROBLEMS!!! Ok, some of the SAME problems... but more of them...and I am over it... done... FIN!

I am thinking... I love the optics in the Meade, its a beautiful scope to look through, and I would love to photograph through it. (I am really passionate about the photography side of this hobby)... but this sucker is NEVER going to be able to be set up for astrophotography as it is...
So...

1. should I remove the Meade from its fork assembly, and put it on my EQ6... and thus be able to photograph through it, but sacrifice the ease of viewing through it when it is set up "as intended"?
(this is the way Im leaning... I can sell the wedge easily enough, and can hang on to the fork assembly and maybe one day..when Im old and have forgotten what a terrible experience this was..I could put it back together.)
2. should I sell the whole LX90 and maybe buy a reasonable sized Dob to view through?
3. Gently Lay the LX90 on its side on the ground...and take to it with a sledge hammer?

I am interested to hear your thoughts and opinions on this( especially if you have another option for me to consider)...unless your thoughts are that I should chose my 3rd option...I was only joking.. I wouldnt want to risk damaging a perfectly good sledge hammer!

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #2 16-10-2011, 10:49 PM

Oh my what a tale of woe! Sorry to hear of your troubles. One question, did the problems only happen when the mount was on the wedge or when it was in alt-az mode?

Zincberg (Andrew) · #3 16-10-2011, 11:01 PM

Thats a hard one to say...for instance, last night( under polar alignment).. firstly, the accuracy of the goto was WAAAAAAAY off, like I mean 30 deg. or more. Then I would direct it to go to Jupiter..and it would be pointing east when Jupiter was nearly exactly north.
When autoguiding it wont guide N/S (I have 2 hand controllers, neither will do it...suggesting it is something to do with the Dec motor again)
The clutch on the Dec motor was slipping if I added even a small bit of weight, so putting my DSLR on was a no go.

When in ALt-az mode.. although the goto is still off (always has been), it behaves itself ok. It will hold any object for hours on end.. everything seems fine until you wedge it, then..when you need that tight level of accuracy.. all the problems seem to appear.

Problem with keeping it as a "viewing only" scope is that I rarely want to just view... and its a lot of money to have just sitting around waiting for a night when I dont feel like photographing.

Poita (Peter) · #4 16-10-2011, 11:15 PM

No question, stick the meade on the EQ6, my 10" LX200R is on the EQ6 and is a joy to use.

If the LX90 fork mount still works fine in AltAzimuth mode, then sell the forks and mount as such, and just enjoy the scope on your EQ6.

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #5 16-10-2011, 11:20 PM

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the LX90 mount struggles a little when on a wedge, that was why I asked the question. Others that have used these scopes for imaging may be able to offer advice.
If I was you I'd take the OTA and mount it on the NEQ6, as you say the optics are good ( I assume it is the ACF version so should give a nice flat field) and have some strings to your bow in terms of options for imaging.
If you need a good visual scope, why not build a dob mount for the 10" so you can enjoy the eyepice views while the imaging setup is doing its thing.

jenchris (Jennifer) · #6 16-10-2011, 11:39 PM

LX90 - mine works passably well in Wedge - the guiding is not amazing - it is just possible to get about 3 or 4 minutes clean - I shall mount it on a NEQ6 or similar as soon as I can afford the mount.
With all the gubbins on it, I can't get close to polar for photography - I'm not even sure I can get Eta Carina - we'll see.
I spent a lot of time balancing it and stripping it down and refitting a lot of the parts so they worked smoothly - there was all sorts of loctite and goo on the Dec motor pivots - the whole fork scraped on the base of the mount when in wedge - until I shaved off some metal - which I shouldn't have to do. The RA clutch was awful because there was a washer on the top of the shaft which shouldn't be there - well it worked worse with it there anyway.

Nothing though has broken - but the first thing I did was lose the battery holders - they scraped about inside when in wedge mode.
The tiny little diagonal is crap - and I got rid of that in a hurry too.
Not impressed with the mount. The OTA is quite excellent

marki · #7 16-10-2011, 11:56 PM

If you made a fork big enough to do the job on these things it would weigh a metric tonne. As the owner of a LX200R I can tell you things aren't much better there for AP either although my scope has never missed a beat mechanically or on the electrical side either. It is just too hard to do AP with a fork on a wedge at that focal length (wobble wobble). Yes the optics are very good so you have answered your own question. Defork the scope (easier said then done) and chuck it on a EQ mount. It will still be very challenging on the EQ due to the long FL but at least you have a chance.

Mark

mozzie (Peter) · #8 17-10-2011, 06:17 AM

hi andrew
i owned a 12"lx90 and it was a perfect scope i did visual only and its goto and pointing accuracy was within 2 mins.. in saying that i wouldn't attempt astro imaging with it the mount was a little flimsy and there was flex but as i said for visual perfect.....
i feel your pain i then up graded to a lx 200 14" 12 months ago visual only and till 2 weeks ago what a 12 months i had absoutly terrible goto's and wondered wether i should have keep my old scope !!!!!!i feel that mine slipped through the meade system and was a 5 to 5 on a friday job...but mine was replaced and i wonder why your's didn't have that option????..
anyway used mine again last night and dead set perfect am very happy with new scope.

hope you can sort your's out.....

AndrewJ · #9 17-10-2011, 07:48 AM

Gday Andrew

Quote:

When autoguiding it wont guide N/S

This screams you have a new model Autostar
or badly trained drives.
What are the firmware revisions on your handboxes???
What do your drive train numbers show??

The earlier firmwares of the new handboxes had huge problems with their clocks, ( which affects pointing ).
They also couldnt find several of the major planets ( missed by about 4 degrees ), and N/S pulseguide commands go to the RA motor.
A lot of this sounds like your symptoms.
Some of these bugs got fixed by meade, but the guiding bug is still there.
We have developed patches to fix this, but i need to know what firmware you are running first, to see if that may be the problem.

Andrew

jenchris (Jennifer) · #10 17-10-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

and N/S pulseguide commands go to the RA motor.

THAT is exactly what seems to be happening!!!!!

DavidTrap (David) · #11 17-10-2011, 10:03 AM

Listen to AndrewJ - he is a wise man who sorted one of my problems with an LX-90. A great asset to the Meade users!

DT

Alchemy (Clive) · #12 17-10-2011, 10:25 AM

Move on to an equatorial mount, be done with the fork mount...... Fork the fork so to speak.

Been there done that, although it wasn't the model you have, I then did my research and bought a g11. As far as the mount goes no problems period, I did flip around with several scopes till I settled on an APO 5 inch. It has its good and bad points but it's a happy compromise.

Given the previous replies, I think you will be wasting your time with the old setup.

As far as a lemon goes..... I'm assuming the mount is yellow .

mozzie (Peter) · #13 17-10-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

Listen to AndrewJ - he is a wise man who sorted one of my problems with an LX-90. A great asset to the Meade users!

DT

i second that two..he's done heaps to fix meade bugs

Poita (Peter) · #14 17-10-2011, 11:44 AM

You may as well sort the bugs in the meade fork setup if you can, but I'd still just demount it and put it on the EQ6.
With a reducer you can do decent photography with it then, even with the fork absolutely singing, it will cause you nothing but grief for AP work.

Pop it on the EQ6 and don't look back, sell the forks, they will be useful to someone.

jenchris (Jennifer) · #15 17-10-2011, 12:29 PM

I'd like to ask Andrew what the firmware updates need to be.
I've redone the progs recently and it's running with Ascom 6 - and the 497 HB is running with 5EC2 I think is the number off the top of my head.
I haven't had a chance to do an AP run since I updated except a short one onenight that was inconclusive - my Polar alignment is pretty close to spot on and it doesn't really drift at all in Dec. but the RA seems to shimmy back and forth even if the fork is biased one way ( a little excess weight to one side or the other).
If I turn off the GHD Dec axis, would that stop the surge being injected into the RA?
It's all a bit stab in the dark for me and I'd love some intelligent insight into what is happening.

Thanks

AndrewJ · #16 17-10-2011, 12:53 PM

Gday Jennifer

Quote:

I'd like to ask Andrew what the firmware updates need to be.

Depends.
For the 497EP, I use 5CE1 as my baseline.
The latest firmware Meade has released is 5CE2,
but this only added the LT scopes to the factory test routines
and as such, i have never bothered to rewrite my patches.
If you have 5CE2 loaded, you DO have the pulseguiding bug
( plus a dozen or more other bugs )
Note! PEC is also totally screwed, so if you have used that
it will account for some errors in tracking.

For the Audiostars, its a little more complex.
There are now two current firmwares A1F7 and A2S6
They are 99.9% identical to each other but the S has dual language Spanish and the F has dual language French.
Both firmwares have the pulseguide and PEC bugs plus a whole heap of others.
I have only patched A1F7 and don't propose to do A2S6 as its too much work for no return. A1F7 can be put onto a Spanish box with the only downside that when you select language, you will get French text and Spanish speech.
I cant understand either so it doesnt bother me

One last thing with the Audiostars. Meade silently changed the memory chips used in the later units and they use different commands.
Loading anything earlier than A1F7 or A2S6 onto these boxes will semi brick them. We have a way to fix it, but it requires a special process.

Soooooooooooooo, if you have 5CE2, i suggest you load 5CE1 with the latest patches, and a lot of functionality will come back.
I strongly suggest you use ( the free ) Starpatch loader
http://www.stargps.ca/downloads.htm
to do the load as this is now configured to deal with 497EP vs 497Audiostars, and is much more robust than Meades ASU.
The Starpatch download site holds the application, as well as the 5CE1 rom files and patches.
For the 497EP and Audiostar, the ASU also wont load tours etc properly. If you do want to add that sort of stuff, you need to use my PEC editor.
( which does a lot more than PEC )

Andrew

AndrewJ · #17 17-10-2011, 01:08 PM

Gday Jennifer

Different thread as part of this is ASCOM based, not all Meade

Quote:

I've redone the progs recently and it's running with Ascom 6

Do you have the driver set to synch the time on connect?
Do you allow the driver to set the date/time after booting???
Why i ask is
a) There is a bug in the :SC command (which sets the date).
This is totally screwed and will give a totally wrong date if used.
b) The driver can change the site timezone when DST is in place,
vs use the correct functions. This screws up the internal variables used to determine what the real LST is.
c) Changing the date/time after aligning or unparking
( other than via the correct screens ) WILL result in corrupted LST data,
Its not something you can see directly via the handbox, but if you have the patches installed, my PEC editor has a diagnostics page that will read out all the internal variables and you can see if the internal clocks have desynchronised.

Andrew

Rick Petrie · #18 17-10-2011, 01:45 PM

Wow! After reading all those posts, it seems like there are much too many faults to what one would say is quite an expensive scope to own.
Also a lot of trouble to have to mount the OTA onto an equatorial mount to get some sort of accuracy.
If I was a Meade owner, I think I would be requesting my money back. A bit of bad publicity might make them get their act together methinks. Good luck guys and I feel sorry for you Andrew.

Zincberg (Andrew) · #19 17-10-2011, 02:59 PM

Hey all,
Thanks so much for all the replies... AndrewJ, mate.. you are a ledgend, your advice got me from "im going to smash this thing up and give up on astronomy" to..."ok, I can use it sometimes..and its not too terrible".
I patched both the handboxes with your patches, the N/S problem is not that the message is going to the ra, if I put my ear up to the DEC drive, I can hear it TRYING to move... but it just doesnt do it. Also, I know that at last service, the "heavier duty" spring that was on the dec motor was removed and an original one put on, so I know thats an easy fix, but Im just not willing to go through it all again.
This telescope has definately tarnished my thoughts on Meade.

I have made up my mind today that I am going to pull it off the forks this afternoon. Im just so tired of setting up the telescope to "test" if its this..or that, its like Astronomy is a chore rather than the relaxing hobby I wanted it to be.

So... wish me luck!!!! and to the big fella.. if you could give me clear skies to test it all out with tonight, that would be really appreciated...

jenchris (Jennifer) · #20 17-10-2011, 03:43 PM

I haven't used PEC - and since I only updated a week or so ago and have only been out once since, I'm not sure how bad my system is following.

I didn't synch anything - just started the PHD and it sucked Ascom into the initalisation routine of the OTA. There was very little in the ASCOM setup that asked for input -so I let it run as a self start.

Most of what you wrote above about LST and DST means very little to my inadequate knowledge base. There's a strange swooshing sound which means it is going way over my head....

I'll set my gear up and see if I can get my system to reset to 5CE1 - and then hopefully I can work out how to patch the thing using the update you have so graciously posted.

Wish me luck....