SynScan EQ6 vs. Losmandy

[multiweb (Marc)]

Hi Guys, first time poster here and nooby. Love the site and some of the photos taken here are quite amazing .

I'm gathering some info as I'm on the market for a new EQ mount. I intend to do deepsky photography, nebulaes, wide field also to start with. I read glowing reviews and saw some fantastic photos taken on Losmandy mounts. I also checked out the SynScan EQ6. I'm going to spend a fair bit of money on a good mount but I can't decide which way to go so I'd really apreciate some feedback. Here goes my dilemna:

For roughly the same amount of Money do I get a smaller Losmandy EM8 or a larger heavier SynScan EQ6. I reckon I'll load around 10kg to 15kg on the mount. I want to do autoguiding with PHD Guiding so I guess I'll need to feedback the guiding info to the mount via a Laptop USB to RS232 cable which I already have setup and tested on manual guiding on a small goto azimutal Celestron GOTO mount via the hand controller.

On one end, the losmany is a real good mount at a price. On the other end the EQ6 is popular (but is it good) and can hold a larger load so I have room to grow for the future.

Now forgive me if this is a stupid question, but is it ok to assume that an "average" EQ mount will perfom as well as a precise EQ mount if both autoguided? If that's the case I'd be inclined to go with the EQ6. (not saying it is "average"). Autoguiding a losmandy might then be an overkill and not really better than guiding the EQ6? Unless I'm missing something and there's more to it?

What do you reckon?

[citivolus (Ric)]

I do not have, nor have I used, either of the mounts in question, but my interpretation of the recent consensus seems to be that the one that guides the best will be the one with the least backlash and smoothest periodic error, regardless of its magnitude, within reason of course. As such, it is entirely possible for an EQ6 to outperform a GM8, if you had a "good" EQ6 and a "bad" GM8. I can not address the likelyhood of getting a good mount of either model, though.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Thanks for your feedback mate. I do hope there aren't any "bad" GM8.
I'd be pulling my hair out.

Losmandy gear is supposedly difficult to get and there's a waiting list on deliveries as it is my understanding they manufacture only limited quantities every year, and that's world-wide.

The EQ6 though is mostly available off the shelf (made and assembled in China mostly), so my feeling is it's the popular and cheaper alternative. I have no doubt the finish doesn't even comes close to Losmandy stuff but I hope the gears and mechanic are pretty close so I can get decent and smooth tracking to start with when I autoguide.

As far backslash goes it is only an issue when you reverse RA or DEC, for aligning right? Would PEC affect tracking enough for autoguiding not being able to compensate? In other words, tracking that is not smooth enough or jerky via mechanical problems would show up even with an auto guiding software doing the corrections?

[citivolus (Ric)]

Actually, I think backlash is less of a problem than I made it out to be, as when guiding at 1x, the gear slop shouldn't come into play because the drive direction never actually reverses.

[h0ughy (David)]

OK I will step in here - I have both. if you want something relatively cheap and hassle free then get toe EQ6, but if you want better quality then get a G11. I love both. usethe search button at the topright and go for it

[mick pinner]

if your serious about quality then there is no comparison get the G11.

[multiweb (Marc)]

G11 is way out of my budget. I'm comparing the EQ6 to GM8 at this stage.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Also consider the Vixen Sphinx Deluxe - which has carrying capacity (15 Kgs) like a GM-8, excellent pointing, tracking and PEC, but costs around $2,500 vs the $4,000 for the GM-8 plus Gemini.

Wait for more replies too before you decide.

Critical questions you need to ask include:

1) how heavy a load do you wish to use - this affects you choice of mounts.

2) how longer images due you wish to take - a rig that can handle a heavy load for a 20 minute shot is alot more demanding than a righ that handles a modest load for 5 minutes. What parameters will you operate within?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Thanks for that g__day. I'm looking at 10-15kg max. Exposure between 1 min and 5 min using a Canon 40D. I spent this week-end in the blue mountains with some mates and did some shots with a 6 year old Nikon Coolpix 995 piggy backed on a Takahashi EM-200. It made me realise how important good tracking is as I compared shots from the same camera and settings on other mounts. The sharpness of details the pictures was very different (on M42). So I think the bottom line is to get the best mount I can afford for my budget and Losmandy it is. I'll start widefield, then invest in some decent optics later down the road.

[g__day (Matthew)]

I think the Losmandy GM-8 has the same carrying capacity and tracking and PE as a Sphinx Deluxe, I did a thread reviewing goto mounts awhile ago:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...highlight=data

Personally if two mounts have the same performance and one is almost half the price of the other I'd be interested in it. Search for comparisions of the Sphinx Deluxe and the GM-8.

[Peter Ward]

There was an excellent John Walker advert out some time ago.
You want to take home something you want to drink or rather pay for?

Chinese mounts will remind you time and again why they didn't cost that much.

Brands like Losmandy, Takahishi and Astro-Physics don't cost the $ simply because of some weird status or branding. They are simply built to much higher tolerances, and, work well....for years....

It's like comparing a Hyuandai to a BMW M5....why be shocked when the beemer leaves you in its wake?

If you want to have a bit of fun and don't take astro imaging seriously, get the EQ5/6 .

If you want to take cutting edge images/get published/ win awards...well a 120mm achromat on an EQ6 probably won't cut it.

Cheers
Peter

[g__day (Matthew)]

Peter,

Be very interested in your views of the Vixen's (Atlux and Sphinx Deluxe) which I guess compete against Losmandy's G11 and GM-8 respectively. Do you have firms views on these mounts pluses and minuses?

Secondly do you feel the EQ 5/6 have a good re-sale value? I would guess many folk start astro-imaging on a EQ5/6 platform before they trade up, so do these mounts hold their value reasonably is a key question?

Lastly if folk are into high end scotches may I strongly recommend Langulavin (16 year old malt) Oban (14 y.o. malt) or Dalwhinnie (12 y.o. malt) as supremely good examples. But above all of these is a Tasmanian scotch from the Lark Distillery at constitution dock, Hobart, it is simply an amazing scotch!

Cheers!

[allan gould]

There is a used G11 plus Gemini going for ~$3500 at ATS at the moment. This would be a great buy.

[multiweb (Marc)]

I know. I just bought it!

[allan gould]

Well done - you wont regret it.

[theodog (Jeff)]

Good one,

In the end it comes down to what others recomend.

Beware of advice from people with vested interests.

Cheers Jeff

[Aster]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Chinese mounts will remind you time and again why they didn't cost that much.

Brands like Losmandy, Takahishi and Astro-Physics don't cost the $ simply because of some weird status or branding. They are simply built to much higher tolerances, and, work well....for years....

It's like comparing a Hyuandai to a BMW M5....why be shocked when the beemer leaves you in its wake?

Can't agree with that at all, Peter. Although my first EQ6 was a dog. The exchange one was, as you would say a chinese mount. Maybe I have some advantage as my background is engineering and I am not a bad handyman, even if I say so myself, but I would put my present EQ6 up against any of your Losmandys etc. for smoothness and steadyness of operation.

Your weakest part on any of your modern EQ mounts is the point where your scope is attached to the EQ head, dovetail and tube rings .
Precision machining and high quality bearings do very little, accept increase the manufactures bank balance, to the smooth running of the EQ mount. Smooth running, average tolerance, is only required in RA.

To make my point. My EQ6 carries about 45kg total weight. 250mm F6 newtonian, in cardboard forma tube, plus 80mm guidescope and counterweights for DEC. and RA.

By offsetting one counterweight in RA by 6mm, with locks undone, the scope will slowly swing around the RA axis. Much less required to do the same thing in DEC.

To achieve that I took the mount appart, totally. Cleaned, removed burrs, casting sand etc. Used good quality grease, reassembled and adjusted parts as they should be. Surprised with the machining tolerances, more than adequate, even the bearings. We are not running at 1000RPM.

Didn't use the standard tube rings. Made myself a wooden saddle, like a cradle. Tube is sitting on 2 radiuses, lined with carpet, 400mm apart, held down with 2 straps. Dove tail is bolted to the bottom of the cradle. Vibration reduced by at least 60%.

EQ head is pier mounted, on a concrete block, which makes it more than twice as solid as tripod mounted.

My setup for DSI is as good as any other, except GOto, although my home made setting circles are more then adequate to locate most objects in the night sky, costing more than twice that much.

With a bit of thought and knowledge even a, as you say "chinese mount", can take award winning astronomical images with the right camera and experienced hands.

[multiweb (Marc)]

I think this thread is catching fire. Maybe too much Johnnie Walker.

I appreciate your feedback Aster but it sounds like you are far more experienced than the average user when it comes to pulling and putting things back together.

The machining manufacturing process in the losmandy mounts probably justifies the pricing. They are precision machinery. I mean time is money right? If you think of cast parts in most other mounts?

But I have no doubt you'd get very good result with an EQ6. In my case I'm not really after carrying huge weights either but after very precise tracking and getting a very good mount is "money in the bank".

I'm not experienced enough to know what a good mount is versus an average one so I went on to check a lot of photos on the web from different users, equipment, etc... So I did a visual comparison I guess, keeping in mind what cameras they used also to be fair. And invariably, the crispest sharpest ones had the word "Losmandy" in the specs somewhere. So that's telling me something...

[Aster]

As I said, "I may have an advantage..." I just dislike general statements like, example... "this costs $6000 so it has to be better than the one which costs $3500" and this one is made in such and such country therefor it is crap.

[theodog (Jeff)]

I can not agree more Aster.

And this from a Losmandy and Port man.

Cheers Jeff