#1  
Old 21-11-2006, 07:40 AM
sheeny's Avatar
sheeny (Al)
Spam Hunter

sheeny is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oberon NSW
Posts: 14,437
Hubble sees Dark Energy's Youth

I found this in News@ nature this morning.

Al.

Hubble sees dark energy's youth

Ancient supernovae show that mysterious force existed early in Universe.
Geoff Brumfiel

Astronomers have determined that dark energy, a force that counters gravity, existed at least 9 billion years ago. And the mysterious force seems to have been much the same then, in the infancy of our 13.7-billion-year-old Universe, as it is today.

"This is a significant clue in the quest to understand one of the most interesting questions in physics," says Adam Riess, an astronomer at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, and a member of the study.


Dark energy is a poorly understood force that seems to be pulling the Universe apart. It was first spotted in 1998 by astronomers, including Riess, who were studying the violent deaths of distant stars.

Further observations of the afterglow of the Big Bang, known as the cosmic microwave background, have strengthened the case for dark energy. Those measurements show that it could make up as much as 74% of the Universe, while another unknown substance called 'dark matter' makes up 22%. That leaves just 4% for 'ordinary' matter including stars, planets and people.

At the core of the new work are 23 observations of very old, distant star-explosions called supernovae, spotted with the Hubble Space Telescope. The supernovae came from a specific type of star that astronomers believe explodes with a uniform brightness, so the explosions' observed brightness can be used to determine how far away, and how old, the stars are.

The survey shows that the stars are further away than would be expected if the Universe were expanding without the added force of dark energy to push things apart, the researchers say. The power of the dark energy seems to be much the same back then as it is today, says Riess, although the error bars on this are still very large.

Constant question

This will constrain theories about how our Universe works. Some say that dark energy is a constant, unchanging quality. Others suggest that it, like the electromagnetic force, has changed over time. Then there are those who think that dark energy does not exist at all; instead, they say, gravity has behaved differently over time, accounting for the behaviour that dark energy was invented to describe.

"We still don't understand some very basic things," says Sean Carroll, a cosmologist at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. "Every clue on dark energy is important."

But there's still a good deal of work to be done before astronomers will be able to determine whether dark energy really is a constant, unchanging force of nature, according to Saul Perlmutter, an astronomer at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California. Perlmutter says it will take thousands, rather than dozens, of supernovae measurements to determine whether dark energy has changed over time. That is likely to require a dedicated, space-based telescope to hunt for supernovae.

Nevertheless, he says, it's important to take at least some measurements now to get an early hint of the final conclusion. "These are very important steps to be taking," Perlmutter says. "I'll look forward to seeing the paper." The work is due to be published in the Astrophysical Journal next year.



Hubble snapshots of five supernovae (top) between the age of 3.5 and 10 billion years old, and their host galaxies before the explosions (bottom).
NASA/STScI
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 21-11-2006, 08:52 AM
xelasnave's Avatar
xelasnave
Gravity does not Suck

xelasnave is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 17,003
If one can move away from our human experience and accept if only just for a moment that "gravity does not suck" and indeed is a universal pushing force all the problems disappear..its only an idea so give it some thought before dismissing it as out of hand as there is more to support gravity as a universal pushing force than to hang onto our human experience. The world looked inarguably flat and only a fool would have suggested otherwise..thank goodness some fool did
alex
.
a
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 21-11-2006, 09:00 AM
xelasnave's Avatar
xelasnave
Gravity does not Suck

xelasnave is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 17,003
I like the realisation that there may be a link to the electromagnetic force as this has been my view for some time. But its still only an idea ....not a theory.
alex
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 21-11-2006, 03:51 PM
monoxide's Avatar
monoxide
Registered User

monoxide is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 658
the thing that confuses me is that the way that some people are searching for dark matter is actually the same thing that people looking for black holes are doing (the gravitational lens effect). so obviously if the people looking for dark matter see a gravitational lens they will claim its dark matter but if the people searching for black holes see one they will claim its a black hole.
there are so many theories about the universe that you could say well when we find out which one is right, who lives in the others?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 21-11-2006, 07:32 PM
Doug
Registered User

Doug is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 645
Quote:
Dark energy is a poorly understood force that seems to be pulling the Universe apart. It was first spotted in 1998 by astronomers, including Riess, who were studying the violent deaths of distant stars.
Heck I'll have to recheck my calculations! I thought the universe was being pulled apart by centrifugal force. Hmmm maybe centrifugal force is just a measure of dark energy's effect on matter.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 21-11-2006, 09:03 PM
avandonk's Avatar
avandonk
avandonk

avandonk is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,786
I personally think that the thing that scared Einstein was 'action at a distance', where two elementary particles say an electron and a positron created from the same gamma particle were forever linked. If you measure the property of one say spin. These properties are indeterminate. It immediatately set the others spin. This is faster than the speed of light.

It is called quantum entanglement. It is this I think that lies 'underneath' our reality. The linkage is unknown.
I always thought that the human brain (and others) works at some sort of quantum level.
The physicists say impossible not at room temperature! Your enzymes allow you to burn sugar at 37deg C!

We like everybody in the past are stuck with "our paradigm"

To get back to dark matter and dark energy , it is simply the quantum linkages of every particle that ever showed it's face since we were all in the same place. The naked singularity that was the precursor to the big bang.

My knowledge is as limited as Moses. I am only a product of what to us looks like infinity.

Bert
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-11-2006, 11:20 AM
sheeny's Avatar
sheeny (Al)
Spam Hunter

sheeny is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Oberon NSW
Posts: 14,437
Well, while I accept the the theories of dark matter and dark energy at face value, I freely admit that I have missed something in the development of those theories. I haven't found what it is I'm missing yet, but from my knowledge of physics, dark matter and dark energy is speculative.

I don't understand why the observations can't be explained by minor adjustment to the laws of gravity - perhaps an inverse nth power factor in there with the inverse square law which of course dominates at our more familiar distances. Hopefully one day I'll find the missing piece from my jigsaw so at least I can catch up!

Al.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23-11-2006, 06:29 AM
xelasnave's Avatar
xelasnave
Gravity does not Suck

xelasnave is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 17,003
Well I have been thinking, about Bert's mention of the words indicating a speed greater than C and about Al's observation that perhaps a minor adjustment of G may help. Looking at something as huge as Able 2029 some ( I recall half a billion light years across) maybe the solution is to give gravity a speed greater than C in fact I (instant). Take a long rod say 10 mts hold it in the centre and wobble it, the force takes time to travel its lenght to produce the wobble.. When one considers that Abel 2029 and really any spiral galaxy for that matter do not seem to show a wobble as it were one must ask how can this be so. My point is that if gravity travells at C one would expect that galaxies would not hold together, it is a case of the right hand would not know what the left is doing, and in the case of Abel 2029 the hands are half a billion years away from each other. Galaxies present as rigid sticks which seem to act as one unit and show little evidence that messages of gravity within take many many centuries to reach other regions within.
I am not trying to suggest this as a fact because my gravity rain idea needs C it is a dead duck if gravity acts instanly... the idea is beyond belief but is it not curious that galaxies present as a single unit where every part knows what the other parts are doing.
Just a thought not science and I am not eating red frogs.
alex
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-11-2006, 06:31 AM
xelasnave's Avatar
xelasnave
Gravity does not Suck

xelasnave is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 17,003
Well I have been thinking, about Bert's mention of the words indicating a speed greater than C and about Al's observation that perhaps a minor adjustment of G may help. Looking at something as huge as Able 2029 some ( I recall half a billion light years across) maybe the solution is to give gravity a speed greater than C in fact I (instant). Take a long rod say 10 mts hold it in the centre and wobble it, the force takes time to travel its lenght to produce the wobble.. When one considers that Abel 2029 and really any spiral galaxy for that matter do not seem to show a wobble as it were one must ask how can this be so. My point is that if gravity travells at C one would expect that galaxies would not hold together, it is a case of the right hand would not know what the left is doing, and in the case of Abel 2029 the hands are half a billion light years away from each other. Galaxies present as rigid sticks which seem to act as one unit and show little evidence that messages of gravity within take many many centuries to reach other regions within.
I am not trying to suggest this as a fact because my gravity rain idea needs C it is a dead duck if gravity acts instanly... the idea is beyond belief but is it not curious that galaxies present as a single unit where every part knows what the other parts are doing.
Just a thought not science and I am not eating red frogs.
alex
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-11-2006, 06:35 AM
xelasnave's Avatar
xelasnave
Gravity does not Suck

xelasnave is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tabulam
Posts: 17,003
Such an interesting though I posted it twice..sorry I really dont know how I managed that.
alex
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 04:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement