General advive for Brisbane based novice.

[Cumbrian]

Hello all. I thought I’d take the plunge and register to this site. Firstly, my thanks to every one of you who, hopefully, have helped point a novice like myself towards a good first Telescope purchase.

I’m originally from England (have been in Oz. for 7 years now) and have always had an interest in Astronomy as my Dad had a basic telescope when I was a young boy. So I suppose I’m not a total novice but I certainly haven’t done any major stargazing of the southern skies.

So after reading a few threads I’ve just purchased a GS-880 10" from Andrews in Sydney. I’m hoping that this will keep me going for a good few years and I’ll be able to broaden my knowledge of what’s out there. The only additional item I’ve bought, for now, is a moon filter.
So I do have a couple of questions:

1. Collimation: Is it right that this scope comes collimated but might need some minor tweaking? If so is there a thread that points me in the right direction?

2. Storage: I’m planning on keeping my telescope in my living room and will just keep its dust covers on. Being in Brisbane, obviously there is a lot of heat and humidity. My Unit windows and doors are open most of the year am I going to have problems with mould or dampness etc?

3. Transportation: When taking your scope(s) in your car do you put them in boxes secure them etc? I’m sure it rolling about in the boot could end in tears!

4. Any tips on good dark sky locations in and around Brisbane? It will be getting its first workout on my apartment roof smack bang in the middle of Brisbane but I’m well aware that this is never going to yield the best results.

5. Any general tips?

Thanks in advance
P.S I’ve just got to wait a couple of days for the damn thing to arrive – oh and for some good skies.

[Poita (Peter)]

1. Collimation. I would bet that your scope will benefit from tweaking the collimation, there are a bunch of members up in Brissy, maybe rope someone into having a collimation and viewing evening one night.

2. Storage: I put my main scope in a case with dessicant when not in use, but I also had a C8 that was always left out 'naked' with just its dustcap and rear cap and it never had any trouble, so just keep an eye on it I guess.

3. Transport. The C8 used to just go inthe back seat on its forks, but my other scopes I made a simple padded case for them to travel in. Probably a far better idea.
4. Can't help you with locales.

5. Join an astro club/society and get to some viewing nights and meet some people. Also, check out The Night Skies Network online and get a look at video astronomy.

Welcome aboard!

Cheers

-Peter

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Welcome aboard!
With regard to collimation. It may be roughly collimated but don't just assume it is OK. My 12" GSO was quite badly out.
Having said that all you need to do to get started is make sure the secondary looks roughly circular and centred in the focuser and you can see all 3 primary mirror clips holding the primary in the secondary mirror. If that is the case you will get nice images, maybe not perfect but nearly there. A good reference for collimation that I have used is here http://www.astro-baby.com/collimatio...on%20guide.htm
For basic collimation, a simple cap will do the trick, it enables you to centre your eye over the focuser. One this that needs to be emphasised is when adjusting the screws on the secondary don't drop the screwdriver! as it will fall on the primary.Either do it with the tube level (which can be a little uncomfortable) or tie the driver to your wrist with some string and some tape so if you do drop it your primary is safe.

With transporting I used to lie the tube across the back seat and pop one of the seatbelts around it. Otherwise in the boot wrapped in a blanket and but the base in the back seat (if it fits!!)

General tips
- Buy an atlas, even this very basic one http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx will get you started. The Cambridge Star Atlas or Sky Atlas 2000 are also excellent beginners atlases or the Pocket Ky Atlas
- Collins Stars and Planets is a worthwhile guide to lots of objects
- This beginners pack is also worth considering http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx
- Don't buy eyepieces until you know what you want. Easy to waste money on expensive kits or premium EPs without much benefit.
- Get to a Star Party or Club night. Best things going for new observers!!

Malcolm

[simmo]

Hello Cumbrian and welcome to IIS!

Nice scope to start off with mate. You won't be dissapointed.

I will second Barx's advice on Astro-baby's collimation guide. Just went through my initiation of collimating my first newt. and it was invaluable. It has a good break down of the steps and handy pictures as well which makes things a lot easier.

I have a Skywatcher 10" scope as well, it's a solid and I don't know if that's what you've got but it fits easily across a normal sedans back seat. The car I tried on was a mid 90's Subaru Liberty so they are on the smaller side of sedans too for space in the back. With a little effort I got the seatbelt around it and padded it with pillows and blanket.

Don't be worried about your location as well. You should still be able to find a lot of bright objects in the sky. I think its easier to learn the basics of the sky with fewer stars around to confuse you.

Glad your brissie though cause now all the clouds are on your side of the country.

Happy viewing and good luck
Simmo

[Cumbrian]

Thanks for your replies and my apologies for the lateness in mine.

Obviously things have been a bit hectic up here, what with the floods and all that, so I haven't had a lot of spare time.

Anyway I finally picked up my scope today and was lucky enough to get a bit of use out of it.

Maybe I was expecting too much, and I am in an extremely light polluted area of Brisbane and also it's nigh on a full moon too, but I was expecting Nebulae and the like...

I did get enough of Jupiter to see its gas clouds and three of its moons but I suppose I thought I'd see more detail like the red spot. The moon itself was very impressive and I'm glad I bought a moon filter! Maybe I'm expecting too much too soon.

So I need to collimate the scope and obviously darker skies and less moonlight. I did have a good look though and a couple of hours passed in no time.

I can't focus the finder scope and also I didn't see a lot of difference between my 6, 15 and 25mm eyepieces. Am I doing something wrong?

I think I stink of novice but that is what I am. Any advice/reality checks will be greatly appreciated

[simmo]

hello Cumbrian,

Sounds like you've had a bit of a mixed bag with your first outing mate.

Not to worry though as it only sounds as if you have a few small items that need fixing to get going in the right direction.

Firstly your probably right about the light affecting your views at the moment. The washout does tend to make deepspace hunting a little harder when the full moon is out. Give it a couple of days and the moon will not be up in the early evening and you should have a better time of it.

Usually I can still pick out a couple of good nebs if you haven't tried these yet while the moon is up. M42 in the Orion Constellation and NGC 3372 which is between the Carina and Centaurus Constellations (just above the Southern Cross). Around NGC 3372 you will also find a lot of very bright star clusters which should also standout quite well even with the moonlight.

There are a few nebula (with the turantula being the biggest) in the large Megellanic cloud but they might be a bit dim to see for you at the moment with light pollution but you could always try in a few days time.

With your 10" scope you should be able to just make out the red spot on Jupiter. It won't be red more like a darker brown which blends into the band that it sits in so you do have to look a little harder for it. Couple of things will affect detail on the planets. Your mirror being cooled properly and the atmosphere. There is a theory that the best time to look at the planets is just as the sun has gone down or is about to come up. Maybe some though will say that anytime is a good time. Just be careful where you point your scope though as one look at the sun and it's good night Irene for your eyes!

I'm not sure about your other tech problems and I'll leave those to someone with your brand of scope and a bit more experience.

Good luck

Simmo

[Allan_L (Allan)]

To focus the finder scope (at least on my SW Dob):
First you need to loosen slightly the black large end piece (locking ring).
Then the finder scope focus can be adjusted by rotating the the next inner ring.
This is a threaded ring that holds the primary and rotating it moves the primary.
Once focus is achieved, retighten the outer locking ring again.

In relation to your eyepieces:
Magnification is calculated by dividing the focal length (1250 for your scope) by the number on each eyepiece.
So your 25, 16 and 9mm eps will produce magnifications of 50 times, 83 times, and 138 times respectively.
This will be very noticeable on any object, except stars - which will still look like one pixel of light even under higher magnification.

Depending on "seeing", you may not, sometimes, be able to focus the higher power ep sharply, this may also account for a similar (defocused) look?

When the moon gets closer to 1st quarter, have another look, especially along the terminator (the line where the moon goes from light into shadow). That is where the best profile can be seen due to longness of shadows. Expect to WOW.
Jupiter (and Saturn when up) should be best viewed with you 9mm when seeing improves. These (like most objects) are best viewed when higher in the sky, due to less atmospheric disturbance.
The DSO's mentioned by Simmo should provide pleasing results and a good start.
Do you have a planisphere, or a night sky map of some sort?
Additionally, The Free software Stellarium is valuable to find where objects will be located in your night sky.

Welcome to IIS
Clear Skies

[vaztr (Andrew)]

Hi Cumbrian,

A few tips that might help out.

Let your telescope 'cool' for about a half hour or so before use
While your scope is outside 'cooling' try to dark adapt your eyes (this usually involves me sitting next to my scope and viewing the stars with the naked eye - don't look at the moon!!)
Start with your low power eyepiece (25mm) and try to get to M42, in the 'dagger' hanging off Orions belt
If Allan's focussing suggestions have helped you should see plenty of nebulosity
Now centre your EyePiece on the four stars at the centre of this 'cloud'
Then change to your 15mm EP - the nebulosity may look 'deeper' (tho' you won't see as much across the field of view) and the four stars should be easier to see - they should look further apart
If this has all gone well then go berserk and put the 6mm in - the stars will be easier to see again and the FOV will be so narrow that the nebulosity will only just be there.

Of course while you're doing all this you will have to 'nudge' your scope to keep everything in view, cap your EP's, re-focus, etc.

Above all - practice, my first few nights with an 8" Dob were awful, eventually you'll get that OOOHHHH!!! moment - mine was 47Tuc, in focus, on a clear, still night and Saturn ANYTIME with your 15mm EP will blow you away

VAZ

PS. Find a pal in Brissy (there's lots on IIS) that can meet with you and 'show' you the ropes - this is probably the quickest way to be shown what you are doing right and wrong

[LAW (Murphy)]

If you can get up to North Lakes I wouldn't mind the company, I'm only new to this too. Once this moon gets out of the sky M42 in Orion will be pretty spectacular, and Jupiter is always a treat.

[Cumbrian]

I must admit to being a little underwhelmed last night but having slept on it I'm more impressed with what I got out of it despite its restrictions.

After posting I did some extra research and found out how I thought you work out the magnifications. Thanks Allan for confirming that. I didn't find anything on focusing my finder scope but, thanks again to you, I will try that, again, tonight. I do have a planisphere, Stellarium and an app for my phone but I appreciate that learning the Constellations, for star hopping, will drastically improve the experience. Rome was built in a week and all that...

The first mistake I made, last night, was putting in the 6mm EP. As I said earlier I didn't know how to work out the magnification and I was expecting this to give the LEAST magnification. Anyway I couldn't focus it and went onto the 15mm and 25mm. In fact I think I was using the 25mm when looking at Jupiter and I could still make out the bands and three moons. I was putting all kinds of lights and torches on and off last night trying to work out what did what and fiddling etc that certainly wont have helped my 'night eyes'.

My parents are over from the U.K. at the moment and my mother, who has never looked through any type of scope was certainly 'blown away', again that was likely with the 25mm EP.

So, thanks again to all of you for replying, Simmo and Vatz, I will look for your suggestions and Murphy, I may take you up on that offer. I just want to get a bit more practice in first.

One thing I did notice. When I picked up my scope yesterday and saw the size of it I thought "Maybe I should have got a smaller one"... This morning when I woke up I thought "Maybe I should've got the 12".

Clear skies people.

Cumbrian (Craig)

[vaztr (Andrew)]

Watch out Craig,

Apature fever can strike hard, and then the TeleVue guys will tell you how much better their eyepieces are!!!

We are very adapt at spending other peoples money on this forum

VAZ

[Cumbrian]

Well this cloud is a pain… I was out last night and managed to get my finder scope focused (cheers Allan) before the cloud rolled in and that was that for the night.

I was out again tonight and managed to get my first view of M42 before the cloud rolled in again. I say I saw M42 but I’m not 100% sure. I say not sure, as the colours were blue yet looking on Stellarium M42 looks red. There’s NGC 1981 immediately south west of M42, is it possible that I could see one and miss the other? I looked twice once with my 25ep and once with the 15. I tried the 6mm but couldn’t get focus or I’d knocked the scope slightly. To be fair I only got five mins of seeing before the cloud came in.

Allan, you mentioned that sometimes, especially in poor conditions, that it can be difficult to focus the higher magnifications. Is that likely why I struggled? Again I’m in a very badly light polluted area.

I need to get into the bush asap!

Thanks in advance.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Generally, most people do not see any colour in most reflection nebulae, until you get to about 20" size dobs.

The photos show colour because they can hold the lens open for hours to capture more light. Human eye cannot do this in real time.

M42 would have just about filled the whole ep even with the 25mm.

Field of view of ep is magnification (see previous post = 50) / Apparent Field of View (50 degrees for most plossls) = 1 degree.
M42 is at least 1 degree (and can be more).

So perhaps it was so big you could not see it?

And yes, under poor conditions, it is very difficult to get a sharp focus on higher power eps (like a 6 or even a 9).

[Allan_L (Allan)]

One more tip, use a RED light for fiddling and checking as it will not destroy your night vision.

any other colour light and you will have to wait about 20 minutes for your night vision to return.

Red cellophane (a few thicknesses) will work over a white torch too.

Or pick up a headlight from Woolies for about $20 that has a RED LED mode.

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

Hello, Cumbrian, and welcome!

I have much experience with the issue of humidity damaging optics via mould growth, from my time stationed in Darwin for 8 years.

There are two approaches to stopping mould growing on optics:

(1) You can use a substantial quantity of silicagel, to absorb moisture, but this only works if the optical element and the silicagel are both kept in an airtight container

(2) A much easier approach, and also cheaper and more convenient, is to put a low wattage incandescent (not fluoro) light bulb next to the optical elements, which has the effect of reducing the relative humidity of the air near the optics.

I have had mould on an 800 dollar Nagler eyepiece!! A terrible problem that is extremely difficult to solve. Don't go there!

cheers, madbadgalaxyman

Oh, and one more thing, don't store optical elements with the business end upwards, if you can avoid it. This is particularly bad for the primary mirror in a telescope.

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

[QUOTE=Cumbrian;940516]I must admit to being a little underwhelmed last night but having slept on it I'm more impressed with what I got out of it despite its restrictions."

Low power is by far the best option to start with for relative beginners. Makes finding the object easier, less vibration, and a field that is not just a narrow porthole in the sky.
Wide field eyepieces make life a lot easier, as you get less of the sense of looking through a narrow porthole.

The views in telescopes are not usually spectacular, except for the brightest objects; visual observers must also rely on 'observing with the mind' and knowing what it is that they are actually looking at. Also, visual observing is not just a matter of looking in the eyepiece......it is a skill that has to be learned. Refer to the "sticky" at the beginning of the "Observational and Visual Astronomy" forum, for numerous tips and techniques on how to get the most from your view.

PGCHunter recently observed some Quasars, which just look like faint stars in the telescope, but it was sure nice to know that the light from these objects had spent billions of years travelling 'half way across the known universe'.

There seems to be a lot of focus, in our society, on "being impressed". If 'impression' is what a person is after, then they are better off going to see the Hobbit Movie than looking through the telescope.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Originally Posted by madbadgalaxyman

Oh, and one more thing, don't store optical elements with the business end upwards, if you can avoid it. This is particularly bad for the primary mirror in a telescope.

Hi Robert.
Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean by this, please?
On a DOB for example, do you mean don't store the telescope with the primary mirror "Facing" upwards (ie mirror at bottom, as when in normal use)
or
do you mean upside down (ie with the primary mirror actually at the top).

I could imagine a reason to think about storing it "upside down". And that is to keep dust etc from settling on the primary mirror while in storage.
But I also heard that storing upside down may place extra stress and strain on the mirror from the mirror clips, which may cause distortion? Also the risk of the mirror falling out of the clips which are not designed to take that weight in that way.

Thanks

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

Originally Posted by Allan_L

Hi Robert.
Can you elaborate a little more on what you mean by this, please?
On a DOB for example, do you mean don't store the telescope with the primary mirror "Facing" upwards (ie mirror at bottom, as when in normal use)
or do you mean upside down (ie with the primary mirror actually at the top).

Thanks

Hi Allan,

I have never tried storing a newtonian telescope's Tube Assembly with the aluminized (or otherwise coated) surface of the Primary Mirror pointing downwards.
Maybe someone elso can comment on this.

However, I have tried storing a newtonian Tube Assembly with the aluminized/coated surface of the Primary Mirror pointing upwards, and this was disastrous; apart from the dirt buildup, the overcoating of the primary mirror lasted a shorter period of time than it should have.

Therefore, I usually store my telescope tubes in a horizontal orientation.
There do exist some more sophisticated, and probably superior, solutions which involve actually covering the primary mirror.

cheers,
Robert