First picture of Saturn

Gordon · #1 02-02-2005, 12:31 PM

Hello All

Well I finally got around to trying my hand at digital imaging with the C8. I haven't as yet purchased the ToUcam but a family member gave me an old Kodak webcam which I managed to modify to fit over the weekend. I took the attached picture of Saturn on Monday night. It certainly doesn't represent how wonderful Saturn looked through the eyepiece and most certainly it is not as fine as many of the images on this forum but a worthy result for my first attempt. I have to admit that the computer was a little unstable with the windows video capture software which crashed about 3 times during my testing but at least I managed something. The whole process though is certainly much easier than using film. I now need to learn more about enhancing pictures. I downloaded a free copy of Registax software but find it a little daunting at present but am sure it will become easier with experience. I also bought a copy of a book cvalled Video Astronomy and was amazed to see that some video cameras can take pictures of faint things like nebula and galaxies!

I'm not sure if this is possible with webcams but for now, the planets are a good enough starting point for me. Lots of reading and experimenting ahead no doubt.

Going digital
Gordon

ving (David) · #2 02-02-2005, 12:45 PM

cassini present, eq belt present...
couldnt ask for much more

well done.

rumples riot · #3 02-02-2005, 12:51 PM

Nice shot Gordon, very good for your first. What sort of scope was the shot taken on and how many frames?

Gordon · #4 02-02-2005, 01:28 PM

Thank you Paul and Ving

The telescope is an old Celestron C8 which I modified sometime ago to fit on an equatorial mount. As far as the number of frames used in the picture, I can't actually recall exactly but I think it was perhaps around 50 or so. I simply used the windows movie file created by the camera and software with Registax then checked off the poor seeing pictures in the list. The seeing was quite good and I recorded about 10 to 15 seconds at a time using the maximum window size setting that the software would allow. It was a little frustrating as the computer mouse would freeze all the time but that may be because the computer doesn't have enough memory or some such thing. The original pitures on the computer screen looked rather grainy so I was thoroughly amazed at seeing how registax could align and stack them all. I then used Ulead photo processing software to sharpen the picture up. The pictures seem to come out with a pink colour rather than the natural yellow of Saturn for whatever reason but it's more than likely some camera software setting I need to spend time exploring.

Can't wait to try it on the Moon next

ving (David) · #5 02-02-2005, 01:32 PM

does registax work with mpegs too?

rumples riot · #6 02-02-2005, 01:36 PM

No just AVi ving.

Colour settings are to do with white balance and saturation and that takes a little playing in registax.

Best of luck with your attempt at the moon

iceman (Mike) · #7 02-02-2005, 01:48 PM

Nice work Gordon, excellent result for your first attempt! You'll be amazed at the difference with a Toucam, you'll be a pro in no time.

Quote:

I also bought a copy of a book cvalled Video Astronomy and was amazed to see that some video cameras can take pictures of faint things like nebula and galaxies! I'm not sure if this is possible with webcams but for now, the planets are a good enough starting point for me. Lots of reading and experimenting ahead no doubt

Webcam's can't do long exposures to be able to do galaxies and nebulas, but you can get your ToUcam modified to be able to take long exposures. If you buy it from Telescopes&Astronomy in SA, they will do it for you for an extra cost of course.

Quote:

does registax work with mpegs too

No, but you can convert your mpeg to avi - that's what I did when I used my digicam's "movie" mode to take some afocal movie of Saturn. Use VirtualDub or Bink&Smacker to convert the mpeg to avi.

Quote:

I now need to learn more about enhancing pictures.

Yah, capturing is the easy part

Although there is trial and error in the settings you capture with. You'll probably find that the old webcam you're using doesn't have enough manual control over the settings. The ToUcam will give you the control over the settings.

You should also get K3CCDTools version 1 to capture your avi's, it's a nice little tool and it's free.

As for processing, I hope you don't mind, but I did a little post-processing on your image to enhance it and try and bring back some natural colour.

I'm happy to explain the hows and whys, but post-processing is a lot of trial and error and takes up more than twice the amount of time you spent capturing the avi's!

rumples riot · #8 02-02-2005, 01:54 PM

Nice job Mike, much more detail there.

Gordon · #9 02-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Mike - Good heavens above!

What an amazing change you've made to the picture! I can even see the polar hood. Thank you so much for doing that.

You had better be careful or everyone will start sending you their pictures and you'll have no time left to do your own - hee he. Where can I get the K3CCDTools program from that you mentioned?

iceman (Mike) · #10 02-02-2005, 03:23 PM

hehe no probs Gordon.

Here's k3ccdtools - get version 1, it's free but you need to relicense it with a (free) key every few months. Version 2 is a trial only for 30 days unless you buy it, and it's unlikely you'll use the extra features.

http://www.pk3.org/Astro/k3ccdtools.htm

ving (David) · #11 02-02-2005, 03:34 PM

gunna have to look up this proggy that converts mpeg to avi me thinks...

will greatly improve my imaging

(i hope)

Starkler (Geoff) · #12 02-02-2005, 06:00 PM

That processed image looks pretty good Mike !
If CD was a bit sharper I'd say its approaching eyepiece view quality.

Robby · #13 02-02-2005, 07:25 PM

Ok Mike, you've tempted us thus far.. Give it up.. What's your secret to the processed Saturn. You made quite an improvement. Wanna try a couple of mine?

Cheers

[1ponders] (Paul) · #14 02-02-2005, 07:43 PM

Woo Woo!! Way to go Gordon & Mike.

Gordon, great image, first goto. Good focus, good colour for manipulating. Good camera use.

Mike, I think I'm going to hafta try K3 again. Could you post somthing (In your spare time that is

) on histogram and manipulation settings you use. I can't seem to get the hang of it in K3, especially with no reset like Registax.

Gordon, I like to use the WcCtrl program (thanks again to Mike et al) for changing and manipulating my capture settings. You should be able to use it with your capture program and camera. The thing I like about it is I can save settings and compare results, discard poor setting and refine better ones.

Good shots

Comet Hunter · #15 02-02-2005, 08:38 PM

Nice first saturn Gordon! Half the battle is getting the capture settings right for the conditions, the other half is the post-processing as Ice has shown. Its a long road - keep at it, you'll be amazed what you'll end up with after a few more nights. Look forward to seeing some more of your shots!

iceman (Mike) · #16 03-02-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

What's your secret to the processed Saturn. You made quite an improvement. Wanna try a couple of mine?

heh thanks Robby, i'm happy to try anyone's. Send me the avi or the stacked version!

Quote:

Mike, I think I'm going to hafta try K3 again. Could you post somthing (In your spare time that is ) on histogram and manipulation settings you use. I can't seem to get the hang of it in K3, especially with no reset like Registax

I didn't use K3 for the post-processing, I only use K3 for the capture.

For Gordon's image above, I just opened the jpeg in registax and it goes straight to the wavelets tab. I set the step mode to 2 and adjusted wavelets 1, 2 and 3 to about 9 to 11. I usually set layer 2 a couple of points higher than 1 and 3. (don't ask me why, just trial and error

)

I then went to the final tab and pushed up the saturation to give it a more natural tone.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #17 03-02-2005, 04:56 PM

I couldn't help myself either Gordon. I hope you don't mind. Though I pushed it a bit far. There's quite a bit of info in that image.

Gordon · #18 04-02-2005, 12:28 PM

Hello Paul

No I don't mind at all. I must say it's been a rather interesting learning process. Indeed I can see the planets banding a little better in the version you have edited. It would be very nice if one of you could post some sort of quick reference guide or tips page on this site on how you process your pictures. I'm sure than some of us will find it exceedingly useful and time saving..well, at least I will.

Thanks to all of you for the positive feedback. The skies have cleared so I'll be trying again tonight !

[1ponders] (Paul) · #19 04-02-2005, 01:29 PM

Rumples riot put me onto a couple of tutorial pages on the net. I'll see if I can track down the sources tonight and I'll post the links