Other changes for the 'Buy, Sell, Trade' - Forum

[Stephan]

I explicitly invite people to discuss the following proposal:

I think the 'Buy, Sell, Trade'-Forum should not have the possibility to reply. The way it is now, an offer to sell something or somebody is looking for something usually end up in a discussion about the item it self. This is not bad but I thought therefore we have the 'Equipment Discussions'-Forum. If you are interested in an item just send a PM.

May the battle beginn...

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

I think it's a bad idea. The seller should be allowed to decide (or the buyer if it's a "wanted" thread). If they don't want comments of any kind and replies strictly only by PM they can say so, and I think everyone would respect that. And if they want to welcome or invite comments, they should have the option of doing so too.

[Eardrum73]

After considering both sides, I think we should leave it as it is.

Some questions and comments might be useful information for other buyers, it would save the hassle of both parties to email to and fro when the info is already there for all to read.

Kind of like a comments section on ebay or Amazon.

[ving (David)]

i dont see a problem with discussing the item to be sold... more understanding of the item has got to be a good thing for buyers hasnt it?... unless the seller has something to hide and that would just be dishonest.

of course the thread should stay on topic.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Originally Posted by ving

of course the thread should stay on topic.

I can't believe you said that ving

Hi Stephan

Without the opportunity to reply to a post, information relevant to the item wont be visible to others on the forum. It helps to clarify issues for anyone interested in that particular piece of equipment, even if they have no intention in buying it. It also opens up people to different solutions to issues/problems with equipment they may be having at the time.

If the original poster isn't interested in generating an informtion thread and only want to recieve PM regarding the item that is of course entirely up to them.

Spamming and irrelevant postings aren't acceptable though.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by [1ponders]

I can't believe you said that ving



Spamming and irrelevant postings aren't acceptable though.

Yes Paul, you tell Mr vingster we never do any spamming on threads like that do we Ving . I agree it should be left the way it is, you never know what information sought by other interested parties will do for the sale Its worked for me And No I don't want any more Naglers

[Striker (Tony)]

I think it should stay as is...

You can get some useful information as a comment instead of the seller having to reply to every PM with the same answer.

But keep the spam out.

[Stephan]

If they don't want comments of any kind and replies strictly only by PM they can say so, and I think everyone would respect that.

From my experience, that was not respected.

Also I get the impression that some members here make certain things look good or bad because they might have there own agenda or other just reply without actually making a constructive contribution.

For me it seems a bit like we try to reinvent the wheel instead of learning from other more experienced Online-Forum.

Maybe we can compromise and the people who start a new thread have the option (to tick or untick a box or so) if they want to allow comments or not. This way you know what people really want. That gives everybody else still the possibility to open a new thread and discuss things there.

[davidpretorius]

I have thought on this for a while.

The problem with spamming is that a core of us get carried away and with lots of laughs and giggles we have flattened a thread.

If one of us was to try and start a new thread and say "cmon guys, lets go and laugh over here, then the momentum would be stopped" Some will say this is good, whilst others enjoy the fun that accompanies the astronomy stuff.

Given that a moderator can't always be there to split or move stuff, is there a way that can be implemented that tags a post if you are going to be silly? ie if you are going to stir someone up then tick the box as you post.

threads can be then filtered as an option in the "cp" bit to see all replies or just serious replies???

[Starkler (Geoff)]

I was planning on talking to Mike about this very issue.

I agree with Stephan that a for-sale post is just that, and not an open discussion of the merits of the item to be sold.
I know I would be very peeved if anyone posted in a for-sale thread of mine, placing doubts in the minds of potential buyers or prejudicing a potential sale.

If a question is asked about the item, the seller could update their thread with the relevant info.

Anyone buying equipment second hand should have researched the pros and cons of the item being offered, or can make their own thread in the equipment forums.

Originally Posted by janoskiss

If they don't want comments of any kind and replies strictly only by PM they can say so, and I think everyone would respect that.

History has shown this not to be true. I know that Dave47tuc usually asks that people dont chatter in his for-sale threads, and it still happens. I locked his threads for that reason.

I would personally like to see the thread starter being the only one able to make a post in their own thread in the trade forum.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

DaveP , we all know full well that spam shouldnt happen anywhere other than in general chat. Splitting/moving/deleting and other cleaning of spam is a PITA .

[RAJAH235]

Geoff, in regards to locking a thread, I noticed you did that the other day in a 'for sale' thread. Is it possible for the starter to select which way he/she is notified? ie; PM's only/or....whatever, and 'lock' the thread themselves if req'd? Stephan post8 & Davo post9, had similar ideas. L.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Rajah thats a forum software function. The ability to lock a thread is only currently available to admins/moderators.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by Starkler

I would personally like to see the thread starter being the only one able to make a post in their own thread in the trade forum.

How about this: The thread starter should decide whether open replies are welcome or disallowed. But this probably requires tweaks to the forum software, which may not be trivial to implement. Compromise might be to PM moderators to lock/unlock a thread or delete the odd post.

Simpler still: update forum guidelines to tell everyone to respect the wishes of the thread starter.

[iceman (Mike)]

Some good discussion regarding this issue.

At this stage, I have to agree with Stephan and Geoff.

If they don't want comments of any kind and replies strictly only by PM they can say so, and I think everyone would respect that

As they both said, this is simply not respected by some people, which is unfortunate.

An option of the thread-starter being able to lock his own thread would be a good idea, but it would require special coding into the forum software, something which I don't have time to do right now. Any other option of PM'ing moderators to delete spam which shouldn't be there in the first place, is just more work for no benefit.

Simpler still: update forum guidelines to tell everyone to respect the wishes of the thread starter

There are already rules for the buy/sell forum: Posting Guidelines for the Buy/Sell Forum

2. Please don't post in someone else's thread unless it's specifically related to the item - that is, if you're asking relevant questions about it, perhaps with a view to purchasing.

3. Keep off-topic and spam out of these threads. It's not going to help someone sell their gear if the threads are being invaded by off-topic posts.

4. Think before you post, if it's simply a comment or suggestion or similar, would it be best done via a PM or email?

But as we've said above, they're simply not followed.


I notice CN's "Shop and Swap" forum suffers from the same affliction where "chatter" infiltrates for-sale threads, and they have a similar guideline that asks people not to do it. But as with here, it's simply not adhered to.

I think the best option is that the thread-starter is the only one that can reply to their thread. That way they can provide more information or answer questions that were asked via PM. They can also bump their thread this way, if they've updated the original post to include more information, or a change in price etc.

I know I would be very peeved if anyone posted in a for-sale thread of mine, placing doubts in the minds of potential buyers or prejudicing a potential sale

This is a very good point. Imagine if you had something for sale, and someone replies with "Thanks, but this is not good value. I can get it from xxx for only $yy more.". Not only are some comments contributing nothing, they can actually prejudice a sale.

The problem with spamming is that a core of us get carried away and with lots of laughs and giggles we have flattened a thread

You've hit the nail on the head about the core of the spamming problem. There's a place to stir each other up (general chat), the guidelines specifically say (and have had to be repeated several times) not to do it in other people's information/question threads.

The trick to not getting carried away is to not post it in the first place, think before you press submit "am I contributing something to this persons thread?".

There's plenty of fun to be had while keeping information thread uncluttered. You've got general chat, IRC, skype.. these are all great places to stir each other up.

Anyway back on track, as I said I'm leaning towards a system where the thread-starter is the only one that can reply in the buy/sell forum. I won't implement it for a couple of days to give others a chance to respond here with their comments and flag any concerns or problems I may have missed.

Actually, if I have a Q in regards to how I see an item being sold that can
prejudice a sale, generally only if I see/feel the seller isn't properly informing
the buyer. I always PM the seller. I think it would be rude and unacceptable
to post remarks in the thread that could prejudice a sale. However I do want
to see the seller rectify the situation too. Or I will PM every potential buyer.

However that being said I think if you have someone delibrately upsetting a
sale, Maybe think about banning them from the area for a set amount of days.

Regards,CS

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by iceman

This is a very good point. Imagine if you had something for sale, and someone replies with "Thanks, but this is not good value. I can get it from xxx for only $yy more.". Not only are some comments contributing nothing, they can actually prejudice a sale.

I have actually seen this one before, and thought it was very rude.
IMO, the seller has the right to ask whatever price they feel like asking, and the interested buyer should do their homework as to whether the item offered represents good value. There may even be 'value-added' factors of which the person making a negative post may not be aware.

The exception would be if it appears that a person is giving misleading incorrect information. In such a case use the "report bad post" function, so that a moderator can look into it.

I really cant see any valid reason for open discussion in a for-sale thread considering that the equipment forum is the place for learning about gear.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Anyway back on track, as I said I'm leaning towards a system where the thread-starter is the only one that can reply in the buy/sell forum. I won't implement it for a couple of days to give others a chance to respond here with their comments and flag any concerns or problems I may have missed.[/QUOTE]

Good idea Mike.

[slice of heaven]

Originally Posted by Starkler

I really cant see any valid reason for open discussion in a for-sale thread considering that the equipment forum is the place for learning about gear.

I've seen some good discussions and remarks made, that have arisen from simple 'off the cuff' comments posted, that probably wouldn't have made their way to their own thread otherwise.

Maybe the option of original poster inviting comments or not is the best way, if thats too hard then locking the thread to all but the originator sounds reasonable. People wiil get used to posting queries on the equipment discussions, much the same way comments and entries are seperated on the monthly photo challenge.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by slice of heaven

People wiil get used to posting queries on the equipment discussions, much the same way comments and entries are seperated on the monthly photo challenge.

You obviously haven't checked out this month's thread recently.