Argo Navis vs Sky Commander

[cuttsy]

Hi, I have a home made 10" dob. After the SPSP, I am very keen to attach DSC.

Does anyone have any comments, good or bad, about the Argo Navis and/or Sky Commander?

Clear skies,

Cuttsy

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi Cuttsy.

It just so happens I wrote a review on my SkyCommander DSC's on this page here.

I also used the argo navis all weekend at the SPSP, so I can compare both quite well, though I don't have time right now.

If noone else replies i'll write a more indepth comparison tomorrow!

Good choice though, DSC's are the best!

[Starkler (Geoff)]

If your handy with electronics you could always make a Dave Ek interface box and use an old palm pilot running PalmDSC as I did and save some $$.

[astroron (Ron)]

I have ben using an ARGO NAVIS for two years on a 40cm Dob, never used a DSC before and find the ease of us and its robustness and being able to download files is great. Ron

[RAJAH235]

Hello Astroron, Welcome.
Cuttsy, Welcome too. I run Meade Magellan 1 DSC. As Mike has said, they are very easy to set up & use. L.
ps. They're quiet too!

[astrodave (David)]

I'm another David Ek user. I bought the encoders and mounting hardware from JMI as I wanted a quality result. I run it direct into Stary Night on my (work) laptop and am very happy with the result.

[Vermin (Tom)]

One point to note: AN DSCs now come with 10,000 count resolution encoders.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi,

Gary Kopff the owner of Wildcard Innovations which makes the Argo Navis system actually lives in Sydneys Northern Suburbs and has the units made at Silverwater. Gary plans to join the forum in the next few days when he has some time. I have used Argo Navis for a couple of years and find it superb but the fact that it is locally owned and produced is priceless. 3 days before SPSP I had a brand new Duracell Ultra battery leak through my Argo navis unit. I dropped the unit off to Gary and picked it up the night before the SPSP completely repaired and ready for action at SPSP, no chance of that with a US made Sky Commander, get it back in 2 months maybe not 2 days.

In respect of the units themselves Sky Commander is based on the Tangent Instruments System from the mid 1980's. Argo Navis is from the late 1990's and is being improved all the time. The next ****FREE**** firmware upgrade for Argo Navis due to be released very soon will include anumber of enhancements which will take it light years ahead of the competition including a feature to calculate mount errors and compensate for them to improve pointing accuary on inaccurate mounts.

In addition to that Argo Navis already has numerous features not available on Sky Commander.

IMO Argo Navis is clearly the best system available but its not cheap, then again the best of anything usually isn't.

And yes Argo Navis now comes with 10,000 step encoders as opposed to the older 8,192 step encoders but in a lot of cases this is academic, as the accuracy with the 8,192 step encoders is more than good enough for me. It puts everything into a 10mm eyepiece regardless of which part of the sky I am pointing and you can't ask for any better than that.

Clear Skies
John Bambury

[Robby]

I have used both Argonavis and Palm DSC with Dave Ek's encoders. Both "point" fine, but the ArgoNavis is by far the easiest to use, despite only 2 buttons & the wheel. I found the Palm quite cumbersome and the battery flat lose everytinng was a bit of a pain. Stil it works ok.
The Argonavis is very easy to use and since I have incorporated wireless remote control of it via my star-mate project it is even easier!
Just a couple of cents from me!
Cheers

[cuttsy]

Many thanks for the great information. It's great to hear from fellow astronomers who can give expert advice.

Clear skies

[gary]

Hi Cuttsy,

Thanks for the post.

Gary Kopff here from Wildcard Innovations, manufacturers of the Argo Navis DTC.

The following is unashamedly a commercial response to your question.

As amateur astronomers ourselves, we take an active role in supporting the amateur community and as this posting is testimony to, even participate in forums such as these.

Argo Navis is designed and manufactured in Sydney, Australia and is exported all around the world. In 2003, U.S. Sky & Telescope
magazine chose it as one of its much coveted Hot Products of the Year.

Under the hood of Argo Navis is a dual CPU architecture including a CPU with a full external 32 bit data bus and internal high speed caches. There is a second CPU just dedicated to driving the encoders. This type of processing power allows the unit to search its 30,000+ object database in realtime and display the closest object on its display as you move the scope around.

There are many more features that you can read about on our web-site at http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au. There you will also find the entire 178 page User Manual available for download and details of encoder mounting kits for literally dozens of types of mounts.

Argo Navis now supports the new 10,000 step optical encoders. When fitted to each axis of the scope, these provide up to a 49% increase in pointing resolution compared to 8192 step encoders and a massive 525% increase in pointing resolution compared to 4000 step encoders.

So if you are after a state-of-the-art, high performance, fully featured, Australian compliant DSC/DTC, Argo Navis is the only choice.

If you email me at sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au I would be happy to answer any questions you have.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Managing Director
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.
20 Kilmory Place, Mount Kuring-Gai
NSW. 2080. Australia
Phone +61-2-9457-9049
Fax +61-2-9457-9593
sales@wildcard-innovations.com.au
http://www.wildcard-innovations.com.au

[Robby]

Hi Gary,
Welcome to the IceinSpace forum.. We must catch up at some stage. I'll try & ring you this week.
My ArgoNavis is working well, but my pointing is still a bit off. I'm not too worried as it only happens when I swing from one part of the sky to another (ie >45°) Then I just find something close by that I know, do an Align on it and then I can surf the new part of the sky easily.
I think the errors maybe to do with my GEM mount (GM8) and FixAltRef.
Cheers

[Vermin (Tom)]

Originally posted by gary
[B]...Argo Navis now supports the new 10,000 step optical encoders. When fitted to each axis of the scope, these provide up to a 49% increase in pointing resolution compared to 8192 step encoders...

Gary could you please explain how you get a 49% increase?

When I crunch the numbers I only get 22%.

(10,00-8192)/8192 = 0.22 = 22%

Cheers,

V.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Vermin,

I will attempt to answer this for Gary as I know he is going away and may not be available to answer for 10 days or so.

You need to square the resolution of the encoders because they work in 2 axis.

The encoders have 8,192 steps in each axis, which when matrixed gives you 8,192 x 8192 = 67,108,864 possible permutations. The 10,000 step encoders give you 10,000x10,000 = 100,000,000 possible permutations. Therefore the 10,000 step encoders give you an extra 32,891,136 permutations over the 8,192 step encoders permutations of 67,108,864.

The % increase in total resolution is 32,891,136/67,108,864
or an increase of 49.01 %

I think I went pretty close to collecting the chocolates

CS-John B

[Vermin (Tom)]

Aha, I considered that, but was working with the increase (not the resolutions), giving ~30%.

Thanks for the explanation.

[gary]

Hi John B &Vermin,

Special thanks to John whose response is right on the money with
regards the increase in resolution gained from going from 8192 steps
on each axis to 10K steps on each axis.

Another analogy is that of mirrors. A 10" mirror has a 49% increase
in light gathering ability compared to a 8.192" mirror.

The clue is to think '2-dimensionally' with these types of problems.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Wildcard Innovations Pty. Ltd.

[astroron (Ron)]

Hi Gary,another site for you to be on, as a user of two years plus and with good accuracy with the 8192 encoders, I don't think that unless you are installing an Argo NAVIS for the first time it would be worth the $100,00 for the 10,000 encoders.
Welcome to the site and have a great weekend at Coonabarabran. Regards Ron

[cuttsy]

Well what can I say, what a great forum.

I have organised to do some overtime to get the funds together for the Argo Navis. The order will be forthcoming.

You sold me Gary

Clear skies