Go Back   IceInSpace > Equipment > Equipment Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
  #1  
Old 28-12-2009, 12:10 AM
CometGuy's Avatar
CometGuy
Registered User

CometGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 942
L3CCD Image Sensor Potential

I thought I'd start another thread, rather than continue hijacking one of the existing threads.

One of the current challenges in astrophotography is read noise which is the noise generated in the image as a result of the readout process of the sensor. Read noise is typically expressed in electrons (e-) RMS.

I have started to researching L3CCD sensors (also known as Electron Multiplying CCD's - EMCCD) which are actually now starting to appear commercially from Texas instruments and E2V and exhibit extremely low read noise. You can read more here:

http://www.ast.cam.ac.uk/~optics/Luc..._to_l3ccds.htm

This technology works by shifting the contents of a pixel into a gain register that works similiar to an avalanche diode where an electron can cause the release of other electrons. The gain register typical contains about 500 elements, and each time the pixel charge is shifted there is an additional 2% of extra charge generated. Although this seems miniscule it compounds as the charge is shifted through each element of the gain register, over 500 elements the gain is 1.02 ^ 500 or about 20000! Because this gain is done prior to readout and any amplification stages, the signal almost devoid of read noise.

A Read noise of 0.5 e- is currently specified for the Texas Instruments TC285 sensor which supports EMCCD readout, but I have seen values as low as 0.1 e- quoted by E2V for their devices. Compares this with a read noise value of 10e- for most current cooled astrocameras.

Astrophotographers try to deal with read noise by extending exposures as long as possible. Each time the sensor is read out, read noise is injected into the image. A typical astro CCD has a read noise of 10 e- RMS, and this increases as a square root of number of sub exposures. So for an image containing 100 sub-exposures, total read noise in the final image will be sqrt(100) x 10e- or 100 e-.

This, however, is only part of the story as there other sources of noise. The image will also contain shot noise (noise generated by light itself, i.e the sky background) and dark noise. With a modern sensor like the Kodak KAF-8300 cooled to -10C dark noise in a 600 second exposure is about 4 e- RMS. Shot noise varies greatly depending on many factors, but the brighter the sky background the higher shot noise is (it's the reason why we can't easily photograph DSO's during the daytime!). From a dark site I have found that an unfiltered image at f10 with a Kodak KAF-8300 generates shot noise of 25 e- in a 600 second exposure.

The total image noise in this can be calculated as follows:

Total Noise = sqrt (read noise ^ 2 + dark noise ^ 2 + shot noise ^2 ) = sqrt ( 100 + 16 + 625) = 27 e-

What happens if instead of taking a single 600 second exposure we now take a stack of 600 x 1 second exposures? Read noise now becomes 10 x 600 ^ 0.5 = 245 e-, so total noise in this example becomes:

Total Noise = sqrt ( 60025 + 16 + 625) = 245 e-

Since the total exposure is still the same, signal is identical but noise has increased nearly 10 fold. Therefore a stack of 600 x 1 second exposures will in this example be nearly 10x less sensitive than a single 600 second exposure!

However, if we take an EMCCD/L3CCD equivalent sensor with a read noise of 0.5e- its a completely different story with the 600 x 1 second stack. Read noise for 600 subimages is now 0.5 x 600 ^ 2 = 12e-, so the total noise is:

Total Noise = sqrt ( 144 + 16 + 625) = 28 e-

Again signal is identical to a single 600 second exposure, but the noise is almost the same. Therefore with the EMCCD/L3CCD device there is almost no loss of sensitivity between a stack of 600 x 1 second exposures and a single 600 second exposure!

Admittedly, there a lots of other practical issues to solve - i.e not available in large formats yet, loss of quantum efficiency when used for longer exposures, readout bandwith, etc. But the potential is certainly there.

T
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28-12-2009, 07:42 PM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Torquay
Posts: 5,065
The whole Lucky cam site is a fascinating read, its a whole different world. That they can far exceed the Hubble res on ground scopes is a testament to British ingenuity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 28-12-2009, 08:38 PM
RobF's Avatar
RobF (Rob)
Mostly harmless...

RobF is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 5,735
Its just mindblowing what amateurs can do today compared to 20 years ago. Makes you wonder what will be available at a half decent price in 20 yrs time. Thanks for the heads up.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28-12-2009, 08:43 PM
rally
Registered User

rally is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 896
I mentioned this in the hijacked thread also !
Black Silicon
Its another silicon "photon multiplier" effect technology that apparently works with existing silicon devices.

Home page at http://www.sionyx.com
Interesting claim here :
http://www.sionyx.com/arrays.html

"SiOnyx's shallow junction photonics technology is poised to redefine silicon based imaging.
The SiOnyx laser process dramatically enhances silicon's detector response by a factor of 100 or more enabling 1µm2 SiOnyx Black Silicon pixels that produce more signal than 36µm2 traditional silicon pixels."

So this will yield high SNR imaging sensors that will be ideal for astronomy.

I just dont quite understand why we havent seen anything in the last 2 years that they have been making these claims and supposedly having test devices working that have come off standard silicon device production machines.

I wait !
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28-12-2009, 09:21 PM
DavidU's Avatar
DavidU (Dave)
Like to learn

DavidU is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: melbourne
Posts: 4,835
Super technology. I have been reading up on black silicon and this is the way of the future,
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28-12-2009, 09:52 PM
Bassnut's Avatar
Bassnut (Fred)
Narrowfield rules!

Bassnut is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Torquay
Posts: 5,065
Perhaps the possible array size is quite small, they dont seem to mention anywhere the sizes possible, or its very expensive.

Ive been wondering about this. 100% QE is one photon=1 electron, so electron muliplication would just improve S/N ratio, which is significant as it would also increase dynamic range. But with the likes of us taking long exposures on typical brighter astro objects and cooling, perhaps the S/N improvement would mainly suit pros taking very short exposures with very large apatures to enable AO operation as described in the Lucky cam site.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-12-2009, 06:25 AM
CometGuy's Avatar
CometGuy
Registered User

CometGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 942
Thanks Rally, I'd hope you would "chip in" with Black Silicon

I read about Black silicon a while back and there didn't seem to be any commercially available devices at the time. But it seems like there may. But I agree very impressive and I don't think it suffers the Quantum efficiency loss that the L3CCD stuff does once you start getting significant amounts of signal.

The other similiar devices include the ICCD, intensified CCD's, but the images from the other technologies appear cleaner and higher resolution. The ICCD images appear to be contaminated heavily with sporadic flashes (cosmic rays striking phosphor tube?).

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Peter Ward's Avatar
Peter Ward
Galaxy hitchhiking guide

Peter Ward is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
Alas, there are many sources of noise other than read noise.
Janesick (2001) notes the following on just thermal noise

depletion dark current
diffusion dark current
substrate dark current
surface dark current
backside dark current
dark shot noise
dark current non-uniformity
dark current spikes

Despite zero read noise, an L3CCD sensor can't differentiate a thermally liberated electron from one generated by a photon, hence close attention to dark current minimization is essential.

There are other on chip noise sources

spurious charge
residual surface image
residual bulk image
clocking luminescence
pixel luminescence
diode luminescence
cosmic rays & radiation
excess charge
blem spillover
seam noise
cosmetic defects

There are also off chip sources, eg light leak, pre-amp noise, ADC quantizing, clock jitter & EMF.

While read noise may be minimal with L3CCD there are other technologies that are equally promising eg Clipper chips that also have sub electron read noise.

There is no doubt noise reduction is a good thing, but with very faint objects, the signal just isn't arriving quick enough for the above noise sources to be non trivial.....it would seem better practice to me to gather decidedly more flux (ie long exposure) than constantly run the gamut of noise sources with multiple short subs.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29-12-2009, 02:01 PM
rally
Registered User

rally is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 896
This article has some laymans notes about the science behind Black Silicon.

http://www.laserfocusworld.com/displ...er-into-the-IR

If it ever comes about - 1µm2 pixels will make a nice image scale
No longer will we need mutiple focal length scopes - just swap CCD's to change your image scale dramatically
Imagine an FSQ106 with 0.39 arc sec per pixel !

A 1µm2 pixel may only have a very limited well depth still - so no dynamic range - who knows - they dont say anything about that.

But there is no product yet - so I will keep dreaming until we see the constraints built into a useful product !
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 29-12-2009, 03:39 PM
CometGuy's Avatar
CometGuy
Registered User

CometGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
Alas, there are many sources of noise other than read noise.
Janesick (2001) notes the following on just thermal noise

depletion dark current
diffusion dark current
substrate dark current
surface dark current
backside dark current
dark shot noise
dark current non-uniformity
dark current spikes
Of the list of 8 above, 6 are sources of dark current which in turn generates dark shot noise and non-uniformity noise.

But all of these are time dependent, not readout dependent. It doesn't matter how we achieve that 600 second exposure, whether it is 1 single 600 second sub or 600 x 1 second subs - dark noise is the same. The only assumption here is that the total time the sensor is reading out is the same.

Quote:
Despite zero read noise, an L3CCD sensor can't differentiate a thermally liberated electron from one generated by a photon
I might be missing something here, but how is this different to a conventional CCD? Why would you not use dark frame calibration like you would now?

Quote:
, hence close attention to dark current minimization is essential.
Even in the darkest skies on earth, with narrowband filters, there is sky background illumination that generates photon shot noise. This will exceed the dark noise on a Kodak CCD cooled to say -40C.

Quote:
There are other on chip noise sources

spurious charge
residual surface image
residual bulk image
clocking luminescence
pixel luminescence
diode luminescence
cosmic rays & radiation
excess charge
blem spillover
seam noise
cosmetic defects
Can you tell me which of these are readout dependent?. Lets take one - "cosmic rays & radiation" of which the effects are time dependent, and not dependent of number of times readout. In any case I would rather have a single short sub spoiled by a cosmic ray strike than a long exposure.

Quote:
There are also off chip sources, eg light leak, pre-amp noise, ADC quantizing, clock jitter & EMF.
One of the advantages of L3CCD and "electron multiplication" ltechnologies ike Black Silicon is that they are actually far less effected by off chip sources.
Quote:
While read noise may be minimal with L3CCD there are other technologies that are equally promising eg Clipper chips that also have sub electron read noise.
I am sure there are...I will have to read.
Quote:
There is no doubt noise reduction is a good thing, but with very faint objects, the signal just isn't arriving quick enough for the above noise sources to be non trivial.....it would seem better practice to me to gather decidedly more flux (ie long exposure) than constantly run the gamut of noise sources with multiple short subs.
Agree, but most of the noise sources you listed are time dependent and not readout dependent. Correct me if I am wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 29-12-2009, 09:58 PM
Peter Ward's Avatar
Peter Ward
Galaxy hitchhiking guide

Peter Ward is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
Quote:
Originally Posted by CometGuy View Post
....

Agree, but most of the noise sources you listed are time dependent and not readout dependent. Correct me if I am wrong.
Yep. You also need *flux* with statistically significant intensity, without it, you are just collecting noise.

Last edited by Peter Ward; 29-12-2009 at 10:05 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 29-12-2009, 10:48 PM
Peter Ward's Avatar
Peter Ward
Galaxy hitchhiking guide

Peter Ward is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
I erred in referring to a Clipper Chip (totally different...used for encryption) ..it's actually a *Skipper* CCD
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 30-12-2009, 09:02 PM
CometGuy's Avatar
CometGuy
Registered User

CometGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
Yep. You also need *flux* with statistically significant intensity, without it, you are just collecting noise.
Quite true. Some amateurs have been able to detect stars that were so faint that on average the signal rate was 1 electron per 10 seconds. At 10 frames per second, statistically only 1 in 100 frames would actually record a signal from that star!

Terry
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 05:42 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement