Price Discrepency

[mick pinner]

yesterday l contacted 2 local astro retailers (who shall remain nameless to protect the innocent) regarding a new product l am interested in buying.
price 1. $525.00 in stock post immediately.
price 2. $671.00 2 week wait as they are not kept in stock and then postage time to me.
retailers l agree, can charge what they like, but why would someone expect to make a sale with a price difference of this magnitude as well as asking for my money to sit in their account for up to three weeks before delivery.
a $146.00 difference on a $525.00 item? am l missing something?

[leon]

If as you have stated, the products are identical then it is pretty obvious that some one is making a killing, because the fellow that sells it to you for the lower price is obviously not going to sell at a lose, otherwise he /she may as well close up shop.

That however is certainly a huge difference.

leon

[Louwai (Bryan)]

My guess is;

The cheaper retailer outlays the money, buys in reasonable qty & ships / imports by the cheapest means.

The dearer one waits until he has an order, then buys the item from the manufacturer, ships it via international courier (the most expensive way) & then recoups the extra cost from the customer & still makes the same profit. Because he's too tight to outlay the money & create A saving for the customer. This 2nd guy is only concerned with saving & making as much money as possible.

In my mind that sucks.
If that's what the retailer is doing, then why doesn't the customer buy direct from the manufacturer & cut out the additional %.

If I had to buy here I'd support #1 retailer. The 2nd retailer can go screw himself.

[StarLane]

I know exactly what you are talking about Mick, and I reckon I know what retailers you're talking about even without mentioning them.
I've been seeing it for years now, why does a price vary so much for the same item between retailers????? Do an experiment and have a look for the same product at various retailers online and see how much the price varies. This is not just for one particular item but for many items. The retailers that are way off compared to the others regarding price simply will not get the business. A few dollars, maybe even 20 or 30 dollars difference is fine, but 146 dollars difference is just stupid for an item of that price, and you would be stupid to pay that extra amount.
It's the same in all industries, just shop around. If you can't find a particular item for the right price in Aus, buy overseas, that's what I'm doing from now on, the Aus scope shops just don't cut it anymore, especially when the Aus dollar is so strong yet the prices remain the same.

[MortonH]

The two retailers may have very different shops and rents to pay for, which may provide an element of justification (to them!) for the price difference.

In the old days you supposedly paid a bit extra for the 'expertise' of the person who sold you the gear, plus the after-sales service, technical back-up, etc. But with forums such as Ice in Space, many of us can get the same backup from other amateurs who are only too willing to share their time and knowledge for free.

I don't have a problem with someone charging more than someone else for the same item. We, as the customer, can decide whether or not to buy from them. And with the internet there's little excuse for not finding the best price. Sometimes products are overpriced no matter which vendor you look at because the manufacturer or distributor controls the prices. We should be thankful we have a choice and are free to exercise it!

Morton

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

The two retailers may have very different shops and rents to pay for, which may provide an element of justification (to them!) for the price difference.

In the old days you supposedly paid a bit extra for the 'expertise' of the person who sold you the gear, plus the after-sales service, technical back-up, etc. But with forums such as Ice in Space, many of us can get the same backup from other amateurs who are only too willing to share their time and knowledge for free.

Absolutely Morton and Mick,
I have been quoted the rent argument by two dealers in Adelaide when telling them about Lee Andrews prices for William Optics gear. Like I'm going to say "Oh yes I see the merit in your argument - here's $150 extra, put it towards your rent!"
A lot of the gear we buy is very 'niche', and we have researched it very well as you've said. After sales service/repair may go some way to justifying increased prices from some dealers too. But the much reduced pricing of dealers like Andrews is often very much worth the risk!! I had to return a barlow once before with no dramas - wouldn't like to do the same with a Scope and mount though! Perhaps that's where an extra $150 or so becomes palatable due to peace of mind?
Cheers
Doug

[Karls48 (Karl)]

It really pays off to buy things up to $100 price tag from overseas. Even with postage charges you are well ahead. Few recent purchases: T- ring adaptor for Pentax $16.73, M42 adaptor for Pentax-$14.96, 12X AA 2600mAh Ni-MH rechargeable batteries $14. Those prices include postage and represents 60 to 380% saving on prices in Australia excluding postage. If you have to use mail order, savings are even bigger.

[Ric]

Pay an extra $146 and a three week wait is stretching the friendship a bit.

Vendor No.1 gets the sale in my books.

Cheers

[Night Owl]

You guys should really try this method, and not just on astro stuff.

I do my homework, shop around, get prices off the net, and all that. Then I start going in, asking if that is the best price they are prepared do the item for. Then when they give me their best price I tell them the truth. I tell them if I can get the item from such and such a competitor for so much less, and if they can better that price, I'll buy it from them. Never under estimate the desperation to create a sale from some retailers. Use that to your advantage.

Some retailers crack the ****s, but I just tell them I gave them the opportunity to do business, and that if they would rather I buy it off someone else who is prepared to do business, so be it.

I also tell them how unrealistic they are, thinking that customers have to pay their higher price, for what reason? Just so they can give them their hard earned, when they can go somewhere else and get it cheaper. How retarded is that?

I also don't buy much off retailers if they employ casual 16 year old school kids, instead of adults. It is then obvious they are more interested in their own personal profit.

That's why I keep away from Hardly Normal.

Recently an item I was after Hardly Normal wanted $499 for. Got it from Richard Smith for $289, no questions asked. I assume Richard Smith wasn't selling it for a loss either! If you accidentally think Hardly Normal pinch yourself and go to JB instead, and do some haggling, then count the cash you saved later...and mail it to me!

It never ceases to amaze me how many retailers have this notion that customers must meet the demands of the retailer, and pay what they demand, without ever questioning it.

I've even had retailers try and give me 'sob' stories that they can't beat such and such a competitors price because of their overheads, wages, rent etc. etc.

I tell them if their life is so hard and unprofitable shut up shop and go get a job in a factory on a twelve hour rotating day night shift like I used to do and to STFU.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

There is value in having a local shop front where you can go and inspect the wares first hand. This costs money and the time they spend talking to you about your needs or the product costs money.

I think its pretty rude to waste 30 minutes of a shop keepers time discussing a product and then whipping out "vendor B has the same item for $x less, will you match?"

Im not suggesting that anyone here does that, but its just something to keep in mind.

If you know exactly what you want and arent wasting anyones time then by all means shop around for best price.

[leon]

I tend to agree Geoff, I do, and have bought from the same camera retailer for the last 20 odd years, we are quite good friends, and at times i know i can get it much cheaper elsewhere.

However it all comes together in the long run, for instance, the other day i asked him to print 20, 10 x 8 astro images for me, as i thought their printer might be better than mine, it wasn't, the prints were bloody horrid.

Anyway, I explained the differences to him in coluor etc, he agreed, and said well, take them home, do what you want with them, no charge, that was $90.00 worth of printing.

He is a fantastic bloke, and I can say, Gerrard, can I have a lend of the Canon lens for the weekend, yep, no worries, and walk out the shop with $2000.00 lens under my arm, no questions asked.

That is why I always by local and pay a bit more, Its quality service...

Leon

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by leon

I tend to agree Geoff, I do, and have bought from the same camera retailer for the last 20 odd years, we are quite good friends, and at times i know i can get it much cheaper elsewhere.

However it all comes together in the long run, for instance, the other day i asked him to print 20, 10 x 8 astro images for me, as i thought their printer might be better than mine, it wasn't, the prints were bloody horrid.

Anyway, I explained the differences to him in coluor etc, he agreed, and said well, take them home, do what you want with them, no charge, that was $90.00 worth of printing.

He is a fantastic bloke, and I can say, Gerrard, can I have a lend of the Canon lens for the weekend, yep, no worries, and walk out the shop with $2000.00 lens under my arm, no questions asked.

That is why I always by local and pay a bit more, Its quality service...

Leon

Sounds like you've got a good thing going there leon - nice one.

The dealer I referred to in my post on the other hand is an arrogant tosser!
I bought $1000 of unfriendly service from him recently - you see, I didn't realise that HE was doing me a favour through this purchase!!!
Now I'm very happy to waste his time for 30mins and whip out vendor's B,C and D's better quotes!!
Grrrrrrrrrr....

[Night Owl]

Originally Posted by Starkler

There is value in having a local shop front where you can go and inspect the wares first hand. This costs money and the time they spend talking to you about your needs or the product costs money.

I think its pretty rude to waste 30 minutes of a shop keepers time discussing a product and then whipping out "vendor B has the same item for $x less, will you match?"

Im not suggesting that anyone here does that, but its just something to keep in mind.

If you know exactly what you want and arent wasting anyones time then by all means shop around for best price.

What possible 'value' is it to have a 'local' shop that expects somone to pay close to $200 more for the same product, that is available in the same city at another shop? Its an insult to customers to try and gouge them, and call that of 'value'. Thats a rip off, pure and simple.

And just what sort of customer satisfaction do you think the customer is going to have when he finds out he's been fleeced $200 by shop owner A or B?

Do you think the skun customer is going to go back to get conned out of another weeks wages next time???? Not damn likely. I know I would be bagging the living daylights out of the merchant to everyone I met about what a rip off they are. What is that worth to any merchant? I know many don't care, as long as one off suckers keep walking through the door. What's rude again?

But I forgot, no customer has the right to expect value for money, and customer satisfaction. Just shut up, pay the price, and leave with it hey?

Well, I'm prepared to be rude, and spend what I save on something else. And other un-rude suckers can take home their over priced item, and rest assured knowning their convenient favourite local value shop owner can now spend the money they gave him on something 'he' wants!

Anyway, its nothing to do about what is "rude" and what is manners. Its about making your dollar go further.

"If you want to donate money, give it to charity, not a business." That's my motto.

They are in business, to supply the customer. It is in their interests to offer things that people will buy. There is no onus on the customer to buy what they have in stock, simply becasue they have it in stock, and you looked at it or talk about it!

This sort of attitude reinforces to me that many people are their own worst enemies when it comes to business dealings and buying stuff they have fixated on and have obssesions with. Problem is many 'hobby' items are like that I've noticed.

Anyway, my cosy 'local' shop is over a 500KM for the round trip. So I'll be stuffed if I'll drive half a thousand KM, to look at something, and then feel ablidged to pay inflated tag price because they gave me the privledge to look at it! I wasn't one of those that was born any minute.

You know, I've called places to see if they had stuff in stock, driven 500KM, to be told once I've got there that their computer stock management was out and they don't have one in stock, but can get one in three weeks. All that has proved is I'm not a violent individual.

Man, if I was a greedy shop owner with very little concience you're the type of customer I'd want! I'd be adding decimal places if I knew you were coming along for a look!

And anyway, who said anything about wasting 30 minutes of a shop owners time?

I walk in, look at the price, and ask is that the best price they are willing to do. If they say that's it, I tell them I'm buy it from shop B and what price they will sell it to me at. Usually the elapsed time is less than 2 minutes. I suppose that's rude as well?

[mick pinner]

can't agree Geoff, the argument that you take up the salesmans time and someone has to pay doesn't stand up, it's double dipping on behalf of the shop. they pay their staff from profits, so having to pay a bit more just to have them there is ridiculous. in my buisness l may do 20-30 quotes a week, do l then expect a person to get a second or third quote? of course l do, do l add extra to the quote for my trouble? of course not it's built into my costs not added on because they have taken up some of my time.
my initial point was not that one shop was a little dearer, it was $146 dearer on a $525 item, thats a lot of customer relations.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Night Owl

I walk in, look at the price, and ask is that the best price they are willing to do. If they say that's it, I tell them I'm buy it from shop B and what price they will sell it to me at. Usually the elapsed time is less than 2 minutes. I suppose that's rude as well?

Whoa! Some strong feeling there!

I have no issue with the above scenario at all. I was merely pointing out that I think its a bit rude to be what those in the trade would call a "time waster", someone who would waste considerable amounts of the shopkeepers time without any intention to buy from them.

How is it fair to take advantage of a retailer in such a way and then going to the opposition who happens to be more of an importer/wholesaler for the purchase? One who is not offering the shop front facility.

Before I get my head chewed any further please accept that I'm talking in broad general terms here, without reference to the specifics in this thread. Perhaps I shouldn't have opened my mouth

There's no point getting upset with any vendor about their prices, just don't deal with them.

[fringe_dweller]

tyrekickers

[Kokatha man]

And I thought raising an issue that is dear to me like Reconciliation was a possible hornets' nest with some people (tho' we don't have hornets in Oz to my knowledge, justs wasps - and the only ones that seem to be a problem are the European ones.....no, don't even think about pursuing that any further Darryl!)

But honestly fellas, I've been a manufacturer as well as a professional artist over many years now, originally with a sales tax exemption "number" and then, after GST; an ABN and GST number. During that time it soon became evident that there is a whole range of price structures: retail, "trade" and "wholesale trade."

The use of inverted commas is to identify these terms as relative: depending on a whole set of variables they represent various prices a firm will sell goods to various individuals/firms. But the bottom line is that mark-ups are quite staggering in many instances (regardless of whether a "company/shop" has a retail outlet or not.)

Automotive parts are a particularly "rich" example of this. Mick's example of an almost 30% differential from A to B is, in many cases, rather mild to say the very least!

Which is to say, from my perspective, that it makes eminent sense, some would say just plain commonsense, to "shop around." Having said this, there is no doubt that after sales service and other perquisites are an extremely valuable factor to consider in many circumstances. This applies particularly to "small businesses" where the need to foster good customer relationships/services are paramount: if the operator doesn't realize this he/she deserves any fate he/she gets!

I allways ask, whether it is for business or pleasure purchases, "is this the best price you can offer?" (usually over the phone to expedite matters) and it is only in a few circumstances that figures are non-negotiable.

Ultimately "caveat pre emptore" rules: business is business; and unless there are those other "tangibles" that any smart operator should adopt to enhance his business reputation (and this can cover a raft of services) then dollars are dollars.

Cheers brothers, Darryl.

[tbentley]

As a salesman and consumer I see both sides of the argument here. I will always expect and be willing to pay more for expertise and better service. I don't see a problem with that, training takes time and costs a lot of money.
As a salesman I see it as my job to show the client that the service and expertise that he is receiving is worth the additional money they are paying. Part of this comes down to knowing your market and more specifically the customer you are dealing with. For some price is all important and others just don't want problems and will pay extra to ensure that any issues will be taken care of.
I will never rip a customer off but not every customer pays the same price, my job is to find the highest price that the customer is happy to pay. If someone knows exactly what they want and doesn't need help or advice then they pay for the product. If they will need my expertise before and/or after the sale then they pay a premium for that. The advice is a service, just like mowing a lawn, and should be paid for.
What really bugs me is when a customer milks you dry for information before the sale and then goes to someone else to save themselves a couple of bucks. If they can save a significant amount then that's fine, it means I don't really know my market, but not for a few bucks. Those types are really just mean spirited, tight-arsed scrooges and deserve everything they get (and generally get everything they deserve in the end.)
Once you begin asking for advice, this is distinct from asking for specifications or details, I think you have some obligation to purchase from that supplier. The level of obligation is dependant on the amount and level of advice you get. The more advice the more you should be willing to pay. Once the price differential exceeds your obligation you are free to shop elsewhere, it shows that the seller doesn't know his customer even though he may know his product.
Just my 2 cents worth anyway.
Travis

[Night Owl]

Originally Posted by Starkler

Whoa! Some strong feeling there!

I have no issue with the above scenario at all. I was merely pointing out that I think its a bit rude to be what those in the trade would call a "time waster", someone who would waste considerable amounts of the shopkeepers time without any intention to buy from them.

How is it fair to take advantage of a retailer in such a way and then going to the opposition who happens to be more of an importer/wholesaler for the purchase? One who is not offering the shop front facility.

Before I get my head chewed any further please accept that I'm talking in broad general terms here, without reference to the specifics in this thread. Perhaps I shouldn't have opened my mouth

There's no point getting upset with any vendor about their prices, just don't deal with them.

So a potential customer is a time waster, if they just don't hand over the cash for what the tag price is. And a insurmountable waste of time is asking if they can sell it for a more competitve price?

Not fair to take advantage of a retailer! What about what is fair to the customer? How do customers take advantage of retailers! They either want a sale, or they want the competition to get the sale.

And who give a about the shop front? I have never used anything I have ever bought in the precious shop front after I've paid for it. In fact I can't wait to get the stuff out of the shop front and home, and then I hope to God I never have to take it back to the shop!

And I don't care if it comes from a shop front, or out of a container on the dock. All I want is the item at a price I'm willing to pay.

[Night Owl]

Originally Posted by Kokatha man

...Having said this, there is no doubt that after sales service and other perquisites are an extremely valuable factor to consider in many circumstances. This applies particularly to "small businesses" where the need to foster good customer relationships/services are paramount: if the operator doesn't realize this he/she deserves any fate he/she gets!

I allways ask, whether it is for business or pleasure purchases, "is this the best price you can offer?" (usually over the phone to expedite matters) and it is only in a few circumstances that figures are non-negotiable.

Ultimately "caveat pre emptore" rules: business is business; and unless there are those other "tangibles" that any smart operator should adopt to enhance his business reputation (and this can cover a raft of services) then dollars are dollars.

Cheers brothers, Darryl.

Hear hear.

Jacking up the tag price, and calling it a factoring for 'after sales service' is a greedy perversion. If you sell an item to a customer you are in many cases legally obliged to provide after sales service. And if the retailer doesn't have the sense to provide free before and after sales service to a potential customer, and prior one, they clearly don't know the value and meaning of 'goodwill' of having satisfied customers who would be willing to return, and pass on praise to their friends.