The world is stuffed....

acropolite (Phil) · #1 31-05-2005, 01:55 PM

Something to ponder....Around 20 years ago a friend who was a botanist had basically given up on his occupation, because, in his words "the world is stuffed". I laughed at him at the time but now I see unprecedented greed, particularly on the part of business, aided and abbetted by governments and some parts of the media and I can't help agreeing with him. We see the Japanese about to recommence whaling, drought in places that have never experienced those conditions before and strong indications that global warming is a more serious and imminent problem than first anticipated. Yet our governments do nothing and scientists are (mostly) content to observe and study. So what are your thoughts; is the world stuffed and will mans greed ultimately be the end of us all??

iceman (Mike) · #2 31-05-2005, 02:35 PM

Multiple choice? Cool! Are you sure it's meant to be multiple choice?

I'll answer with my real thoughts when I have more time. Good discussion though.

ving (David) · #3 31-05-2005, 03:06 PM

I feel the problem with our scientific research is that it continually requires funding... and funds are hard to come by. Govt wont sink cash into something that doesnt benefit them and big business would if they can name it after them (and they get lots of money out of it)
"the McDonalds obesity diminishing pill"

as for the state of the planet, well it will always be on a downwards slide, its just a matter of how fast it slides. industry will continue to produce (and pollute) as long as theres a demand (and there will always be a demand). We will continue to log forests, desertification will continue unimpeded, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer...

and on that note... wouldnt it be great if every car manufactured came out with 25 airbags, ABS, traction control, little cameras in the rear so you can see what you are reversing over, top notch security systems, GPS and other safety aids?
Why is it that the only people who are allowed to be safe on the road are those with alot of money while the rest of us "suffer" in old non-roadworthy bombs (worst case scenario) or base model new cars that if you are lucky might have an airbag for the driver.

it seems its only the rich who can afford to be safe.

we need a "star trek" ecconomy now.

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #4 31-05-2005, 03:56 PM

Mars sounds pretty cool to me, so I voted for it!

On a recent documentary on discovery channel they said that the worlds reserves are almost used up. They said Minerals will be gobbled up world-wide soon and no alternatives are being researched.

Chromium is almost gone already. Africa is the worlds largest supplier of chromium and they have dug almost all of it out of the ground.

Once we have used up all the minerals, we can't go to another planet and buy some more. We only have what is here.

Bit of a doom and gloom thread but it is good to jog people out of complacency sometimes and make everyone aware that we are using up our Earth too fast. Well done Phil.

atalas · #5 31-05-2005, 04:27 PM

Ah but If we had stella travel we could go and plunder other planets! why stop with
Earth ?

Louie

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #6 31-05-2005, 04:29 PM

Yep! Knowing what mankind is like, we'll just go and screw up another planet as well.

ving (David) · #7 31-05-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by atalas
Ah but If we had stella travel we could go and plunder other planets! why stop with
Earth ?

Louie

now if we could stop pollies from worrying about votes and big busniess' to stop worrying about filling thier pockets we could get scientists research this so we can conquer the universe

silvinator · #8 31-05-2005, 04:58 PM

This is a great topic Phil. It has been something I've been pondering over recently and has been bothering me. I voted for Mars as well, though, I doubt living there would be any better than Earth.
I saw a doco last week about people that live on 1 dollar a day and why they have been forced to live that way. The focus was on the textiles industry. Basically, people in countries like Mali, Cambodia and Peru (I believe, or it may it have been Chile) that grow cotton, make garments or grow alpacas etc, are forced into poverty because they cannot compete with the world markets in the textiles industry. The main argument for this was because the richer nations (i.e the US) subsidise their own farmers that grow the same materials, but these poorer nations do not have the money to do the same for their own farmers. They are also competing against cheap labour nations like China, as opposed to Cambodia, who advocate fairer workplace practices, which means their textiles cost a little more and are unable to compete fairly.
So yes, the world is stuffed. And I also believe that greed is definitely a driving force on this Earth of ours and that it will be to our demise. Not just in the textiles industry but in all aspects of human growth. Let's face it, our resources and commodities are being rapidly consumed, there is a grossly uneven distribution of wealth, and we have not even begun to tap into the realm of renewable energy sources.
Ken, you're right, this is a gloomy thread but it has to be discussed. Sadly, we cannot bury our heads in the sand forever.

acropolite (Phil) · #9 31-05-2005, 05:02 PM

One problem I see is the worlds obsession with growth, as we all know growth has exponential results, just look at the worlds population. The more growth we have the more strain on our resources.

atalas · #10 31-05-2005, 05:34 PM

No Silvie, but we will be buried in the end.

Louie

Starkler (Geoff) · #11 31-05-2005, 06:37 PM

The decline of the earths ecosystems can only accelerate when previously poor countries, such as China are becomming more affluent and demand for energy and western style consumption skyrockets.

I recall a statement by Dr David Suzuki that the earth could only sustainably support about 200 million people living in the style of Americans.

Jonathan · #12 01-06-2005, 10:35 AM

I think there's a few years left in this planet, but some serious efforts need to be made to make it last. I remember being told many times in the late 80's that there's only 20 years of oil left in the world, what a load of rubbish! I think the world is over populated, and with many developing countries in Asia and Africa it will really stretch the resources of the planet and can only add to pollution levels.

I don't think the slight changes in our weather patterns are a huge concern. I think a lot of the panic is because we only have accurate records that go back a hundred years or so to campare todays weather with. I think if we had records that went for a few thousand years it would show that weather patterns change a lot more than we think.

Quote:

We see the Japanese about to recommence whaling

I was lucky enough to go for a tour on a Collins class submarine last week. I think one of them surfacing next to a whaling boat would scare them out of Australian waters pretty quickly!

slice of heaven · #13 01-06-2005, 10:59 AM

I cant vote for any of those options.
Maybe future generations will overcome the problems WE have created, or they'll adapt,we wont.
Jumping ship is a defeatists attitude.The worlds future is not in good hands when 60% have voted that way.
If we cant look after our homeworld what right do we have to rape and pillage other planets?
We choose to live in a democratic society and we choose the governments that rule us. Hands up anyone that would vote for a government that would restrict the type of lifestyle we have chosen to live. Thats whats needed to turn the trend around.

There's no passing the buck on this one, WE , as individuals have created this scenerio. WE use the ever depleting resources that those 'greedy' companies are using up. Those companies are also dictated by what WE will pay for the goods.

ving (David) · #14 01-06-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jonathan
I think there's a few years left in this planet, but some serious efforts need to be made to make it last. I remember being told many times in the late 80's that there's only 20 years of oil left in the world, what a load of rubbish! I think the world is over populated, and with many developing countries in Asia and Africa it will really stretch the resources of the planet and can only add to pollution levels.

I don't think the slight changes in our weather patterns are a huge concern. I think a lot of the panic is because we only have accurate records that go back a hundred years or so to campare todays weather with. I think if we had records that went for a few thousand years it would show that weather patterns change a lot more than we think.

I was lucky enough to go for a tour on a Collins class submarine last week. I think one of them surfacing next to a whaling boat would scare them out of Australian waters pretty quickly!

we arent any better than the rest of the world. In the Kyoto Protocol when other countries agreed to decrease greenhouse emmitions, australia agreeed not to increase them at a high rate, or to decrease out increase, or however you want to put it...
which ever way you look at it we are still increasing greenhouse emitions while everyone else is decreasing them.

Jonathan · #15 01-06-2005, 12:25 PM

You're right Ving, Australia should be no exception. But in the big scheme of things Australia's population is 20 million out of about 7 billion (?) and thats a very small percentage. I think it's mostly the Northern hemisphere countries that need to clean up their act. It would be interesting to see some figures on who's creating all the pollution.

slice of heaven · #16 01-06-2005, 12:39 PM

The US creates nearly 25% of all CO2 emissions.
They have extremely cheap energy prices. The US government is not prepared to jack the prices up to offset the cost of reducing emissions.
There lies Australias stance on the matter. They dont, We wont.
Australia is still the worlds greatest exporter of coal as well.
Though Australia is adding to its list of natural and renewable sources of energy its not reducing its usage of fossil fuel, as Ving stated.
We cant pass the buck Jonathon, we contribute to the global warming as well, whatever our contribution.

ving (David) · #17 01-06-2005, 12:43 PM

I think youd be suprised...

we are the 4th highest per capita in emittions behind canada, USA and Luxembourg

in 1998 our emittions increase was 20% over 1990, while USA's increase was less than 10% and canadas was less than 5%. Luxembourg had actually decreased it emitions from 1990 to 1990 by about 22%. now theres something to aime for huh!

mick pinner · #18 01-06-2005, 07:49 PM

call me defeatest if you like but somewhere along the line the human race reached the point of no return and that was long ago, defeatest, no realist.

fringe_dweller · #19 01-06-2005, 09:05 PM

We love our cars (and air conditioners) more than life! (at least here in Oz) try taking cars of aussies - there would be a revolution!! "we are sorry citizens - but heres your pushbike"
Due to the famous 'tyranny of distance' that we have in Oz - a problem that not many developed countries face - so i think we are in a unique situation than most countries. I lived in the UK for a few years a while back and I really liked the public transport there tubes ect. But then everything is so close together, everyone walks to the pub ect like most of europe i guess.

what makes me laugh is when I was young, (here we go!) hardly any kids had cars - now it *seems* to me every 15 year old gets a *NEW* BMW for their 16th birthday!!??

well maybe thats going a bit far heheh but cars were a huge luxury when I was a lad for sure - we just got old death trap HR's EJ's ect and for a lot more than a similar condition old bomb costs now. But every house has seven cars now it seems - one for each day of the week. Also what me makes me laugh is we famously moved away from big fuel guzzling 'yank tanks' type designs and now they are back in the guise of 4 wheel drives! Everyone wants to drive a humvee these days, like Arnie.
I could go on - of course - but please can I have a new voting option and go for one of those planets you see in movies were they are populated by Amazonian babes only?

(dont tell the missus i said that!!)
Cheers
Fringey

acropolite (Phil) · #20 01-06-2005, 09:05 PM

Slice wrote

Quote:

We choose to live in a democratic society and we choose the governments that rule us.

My own sister says that forestry in Tasmania has to continue. Why... we need the jobs, never mind that it's unsustainable, that we are poisoning our wildlife and waterways as well as destroying our lungs with continual pollution from burnoffs for months at a time. How does she know this.... because the media tells her so; the same media is largely responsible for how most of the population vote, so while some of us do choose the government most are blissfully unaware thet they have been coerced...