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Old 15-08-2014, 08:07 AM
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NGC 6087 - Open Cluster

GSO 305 mm - Canon T3 - ISO 200 - 8 x 4 min (32 min) - OAG - Skyglow filter - Coma Corrector

http://www.astrobin.com/113478/0/

Detail:

http://www.astrobin.com/113480/0/
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Old 15-08-2014, 08:32 AM
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note:
A similar image, althought with less resolution and quality
http://www.baskies.com.ar/PHOTOS/NGC%206087%20LRGB.htm

Undoubtly, a very beautiful region and cluster ! I haven't camera for him.
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Old 15-08-2014, 10:24 AM
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Pretty cluster and nice photo Jorge. But.... what is holding your scope back? This cluster is in a dense milky way field. Shouldn't it be rich in stars? Are you shooting in full moonlight?
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Old 15-08-2014, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Shouldn't it be rich in stars? Are you shooting in full moonlight?
Yes and yes, for both questions.

If I use high ISO, the others stars will be more present. And the cluster will disapear.

I worked to minimize the bright of background stars. My target was the cluster.

And to have all background stars I must forget the color. All them will be white and the faint will be gray.

I haven't a QSI camera.
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Old 15-08-2014, 03:22 PM
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I reckon you can do it. You need more total time, no moon, and do a mid tone stretch. You will lose colour but a curve stretch leaves enough colour to get back. Anyway you're better at processing than me.

I must give the cluster a go sometime, see what it looks like with the camera and see if I can keep the colour.
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Old 15-08-2014, 10:43 PM
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For me, Kevin, cluster and nebula need differents processes. With cluster the information is concentrated in small areas, as dots.

To get a good shape of stars and color information you need a very good camera.

With the same set of equipments, mono camera will show better quality of stars. The Airy disk wil be an Airy disk.

If you analyse with attention and zoom a bright star with color camera, you will see three areas: the nucleous, the Airy disk as an extention of the nucleous, and a border normally with more strong color.

This distortion is caused by the bayer pattern of color cameras. See my posts in http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...00#post1109100

The real size of pixels of color camera isn't the nominal size. For example: for Canon 1100D or T3 the bayer pattern RGBG will be converted to a color information RGB. Therefore, for Red information the Red pixel will have a virtual size of 20.72 microns: Rxxx Rxxx for RGBG RGBG . The same to the blue channel.

If you compare the Red and Blue channel with Green channel, you will see that the stars are larger than the stars in Green channel. Mainly if the star is very bright. Independent of the color of star: blue, red or yellow.

What I didn't understant, yet, is: why the Red channel of Canon has the largest size ? The excessive noise in this channel has something with this issue ?

With my Halfa filter I feel that there are black holes between the red dots informations. As the virtual red pixel size is large, and real pixel size is small... it works like if the pixels are assembled with long distance between them.

Something alike this representation (independent of number of pixels in the sensor):

mono camera:
R R R R R .....

note: R for a luminance dot.

color camera:
R____ R____ R____ R ......

note: R____ for a RGB color dot.

Last edited by jsmoraes; 16-08-2014 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 16-08-2014, 01:22 AM
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Is there any way of keeping the colours you have in the foreground and have a bright milky way starfield in the background? I like to have the cake and eat it too.
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Old 16-08-2014, 05:35 AM
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Yes, there is.

You can use SCOPE: 8" Orion Optics UK with Televue Paracorr, CAMERA: QSI 583 WS and FILTERS: Baader LRGB, 2" IDAS LPS for all channels.

With SKY CONDITIONS: urban skies and 50 % Moon, making EXPOSURES: LRGB (60,30,30,30), you can get this image:

http://www.baskies.com.ar/PHOTOS/NGC%206087%20LRGB.htm



If you search the images of this cluster with Google...you will find many photos about it.

Most without color of stars.

See this nice image with SBIG: http://www.astropilar.com.ar/cumulos/NGC6087_1.html

Compare the shape of stars between them.

For a Canon, my photo has reasonable quality.

In this forum - IceinSpace - I only found another message with photo of this cluster... from me, too.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=ngc+6087

Last edited by jsmoraes; 16-08-2014 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 16-08-2014, 07:02 AM
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And another very nice one, with Canon.

Canon 70D - 10 x 120 seconds (20 Minutes) - ISO 3200

http://www.waa.at/bericht/2014/05/20...8api-n6087.jpg

From http://www.waa.at/bericht/2014/05/20...fen/index.html

It is not absolute, but we can say that:

120 sec ISO 3200 = 4 min ISO 1600 = 8 min ISO 800 = 16 min ISO 400 = 32 min ISO 200

As he did with only 20 minutes, we can stop on ISO 400. I don't know if his Canon is modified.

Last edited by jsmoraes; 16-08-2014 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 16-08-2014, 07:41 AM
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See the image attached. Compare the shape of stars. I did zoom to make the minor stars with similar size between them.

You will see that Canon increase the size of the bright star. Make them more chubby. Because the difraction was added as an extension of the nucleous of the star.

More brighter the star, more chubby it will be.

Because this (among others things), QSI is very more expensive !
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Old 16-08-2014, 11:02 AM
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Nothing wrong with chubby on open clusters. It may even enhance them. Really nice photos with the 70D, so it can be done! Some of those were taken with smaller scopes too. Maybe the wider fields help?

I remember taking NGC3532 with an ED80 and ED100 and the ED80 pic looked nicer. But then it was also taken with a modded Nikon D70s. However my best Southern Pleiades was taken with the Pentax K-5. I'm convinced if I get a good pic it's a fluke. I can't figure out what I did right half the time lol.
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