Telescope on eBay

Clockdrive · #1 10-03-2014, 03:37 PM

Howdy Pilgrims,

Thought I'd post this here as there may be someone local who is starting out in astronomy who'd like this scope.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with the person selling it (I'm in Canberra, it's in Coffs Harbor). I DO however own this exact scope and love it. Great optics for it's size and easy to use. Build quality is pretty decent, with only the finderscope being a bit fiddly to align properly. Once you do though it works a treat.

There are several incarnations of this scope, most made in China. This one is one of the earlier models from the 60s-70s that was made in Japan.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TELESCOPE...99c168b&_uhb=1

Cheers,

Clockdrive

PS. Happy to answer any questions about this model of scope etc. (personal opinions obviously).

The Mekon (John Briggs) · #2 10-03-2014, 05:48 PM

I'll chime in here. This particular scope offers no great value. It appears to be a Japanese made one which is probably oif better quality than later scopes.
Never been a fan of these small equatorial reflectors

chiaroscuro (Luke) · #3 10-03-2014, 06:18 PM

....

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #4 10-03-2014, 07:13 PM

I would have to agree, I would strongly urge any beginners to avoid this scope. Wobbletronic EQ mount and small aperture. All round can only lead to frustration!!

Malcolm

torana68 (Roger) · #5 10-03-2014, 08:06 PM

Circle T optics shoud be Towa so not bad at all. Mount no idea on that particular one I have one similar thats not too bad, if thats all the money you had to spend it might be worth a look in person.

cometcatcher (Kevin) · #6 10-03-2014, 08:16 PM

Clockdrive seems happy with theirs...

40 years ago these were a reasonable choice back then when the average beginners scope was a 60mm refractor. These days cheap 8 inch dobs from China would be a better choice.

Clockdrive · #7 10-03-2014, 08:35 PM

My god, I am absolutely flawed by the snobbery happening here. This is a beginners section of the forums, an all you guys can do is post toxic comments without a shred of evidence to back up what you are 'claiming'?

I own this exact model and use it as my main scope. Did I at any point say it was the most incredible scope in the world? NO. HOWEVER, it is a fine scope that will give many hours of pleasure.

Three nights ago (last time we had clear skies here) I spent a couple of hours floating around in space with this scope. I started with Neptune, clearly seeing two bands (and one more with averted vision) and four moons. I then headed over to m41, then m79, then NGC5139 and finished up with Mars. In between I looked at various starfields that piqued my interest. AND, all of this from my back yard in suburbia with rubbish old 'H20mm' style eyepieces from the 70s/80s. Whack in some decent EPs (which are always a good investment regardless of what scope you own down the road) and the story just gets that much better.

I had a lovely time, shared some of the prettier clusters with my wife when she walked past and went to bed relaxed and content.

What more do you want from a beginner scope? Oh, I know, how about the time before that when I took it over to a friends place and we set up his 12" Lightbridge dob next to my scope. We then had a great night of 'cat and mouse' where he'd find something in his scope, then I'd try and find it in mine. We'd then swap and he'd find something in my scope that I would try to find in his etc. etc. 6 hours later we were both exhausted and both more than a little taken-aback by how many things could be found with this 'turd' as one of you described it.

Having ACTUALLY USED THIS MODEL, here are some hard FACTS:

GOOD
1. Works well from light-polluted areas

2. Holds collimation VERY well when being transported or shifted inside/outside. It's also very light which makes this easier.

3. Brings stars down to a pinpoint, shows plenty of detail on the moon and planets (seen so far) and nebulae, enough said on that.

4. The focuser, while rack and pinion, is made completely of metal (as are all other components on the scope) and is tight with no 'wobble' at all. It also tracks very smoothly when focusing.

5. The mount is VERY solid, not at all wobbly as one of you described.

6. The wooden tripod works well and responds very well to having the feet 'nudged' our slightly after the legs have reached full travel. This puts a little tension on the legs and tightens everything up. I do this with all tripods regardless of 'stiffness'.

7. Metal parts everywhere, not plastic.

BAD (well, depending on your perspective)
8. Takes 0.965" EPs. However, one cheap adapter later and 1.25" EPs can be used. This works very well and I've not had any issues using any that I've tried so far (including Naglers and TeleVue plossls).

9. The finderscope is small and can be fiddly to align properly. However, once aligned it works well enough.

Is this scope the latest and greatest thing out there? No. Will you be able to find the faintest of DSOs? No. Will your mates n*ts retract and his p**is run away screaming because you have the biggest scope? No.

However, will this scope let you see many, many things in the sky that will entertain and amaze you for years to come? Yes. Will you save a huge amount of money buying it and be able to put this money towards good EPs that you will use for the rest of your life? Yes. Will you have an insane amount of fun seeing how far you can push this little gem? Depends on the person, but for me YES. Will you get incredible value for money? YES OH YES.

Using this model of scope I have engaged many students at my school in astronomy, at least 10 of which have gone out and bought their own telescopes and have started their journey through the stars.

If this scope was local for me, would I spend $85 measly dollars on it? YES, YES and... YES.

Perhaps a few of you should take a step back and think about WHY you got into astronomy in the first place - I'm pretty sure it wasn't to impress your mates. It MAY have had something to do with enjoying that incredible tapestry that shines above our little, insignificant, lives.

Clockdrive · #8 10-03-2014, 08:42 PM

@cometcatcher and torana68, thank you for some balancing comments.

These scopes were indeed made by Towa, sharply observed. They also have a small 'cult' following if you Google them.

Varangian (John) · #9 10-03-2014, 08:51 PM

The bands of Neptune? Do you mean Jupiter? There is no way I would ever get bands on Neptune with my 12" in even the best conditions.

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #10 10-03-2014, 08:55 PM

Mate, sorry if the comments have upset you, and it is not snobbery but hard experience. I will attempt to clarify my comments.
The specific comments I made are wobbletronic and small aperture. I went down the EQ2 mount and 130mm newt route as my first scope many years ago and regretted it instantly. EQ mounts have strengths but being a suitable mount for an aspiring beginner is not one of them. Just the fact that the eyepiece can end up in all sorts of odd positions is enough to put someone off, when you add in polar aligning and the shear "non-instinctive" nature of the movement, they can be a nightmare for budding amateurs. When I used mine I think I managed to see the moon, Jupiter, Saturn, M42, M13 and omega Cent and that was about it in over a year. Once I got my 8" dob I knocked over more targets than that in 1 hour!
Small aperture is a consideration. A 114mm scope is severely limited in what it can see. I am unapologetic on this. I know there are observers who pride themselves on using small scope, but for the average beginner, aperture, within limits, is a friend. There is almost an unconscious assumption that a beginners scope MUST be small and cheap, I say it should be as large as a reasonable budget can afford.
In addition I had a number of unstated reasons why I was concerned with this ad. Firstly there is no info on the condition of this scope and especially the optics. For all we know the mirror is in very bad condition or even non existent! I have heard of people buying scopes on eBay to find that vital components (even the secondary or primary) were missing and the seller didn't have knowledge enough to know they were selling a dud! The photos in this ad show absolutely no info.
Secondly I would be very concerned that a beginner would read your post and take that as a recommendation without sufficient info to make an informed choice.
Thirdly, $85 may be cheap and some may consider it only a small risk, but for many who may be tempted, the odds are that $85 is a lot of money and shouldn't be risked.

I HOPE that explains my position.

Malcolm

Clockdrive · #11 10-03-2014, 09:01 PM

Lol, yes Jupiter not Neptune...trying to type with a crying newborn in my lap

Brain fail...

chiaroscuro (Luke) · #12 10-03-2014, 09:09 PM

And if I can add to Malcolm's comments, I had exactly that happen, where my first experience of astronomy was through this scope, and it left me wondering what all the fuss was about - 3 minutes of seeing a lunar eclipse wobble across the FOV after 30 minutes of set-up.
So, apologies for my crude assessment - its not about snobbery, its about wanting to prevent that same disappointment I experienced.

Varangian (John) · #13 10-03-2014, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockdrive

Lol, yes Jupiter not Neptune...trying to type with a crying newborn in my lap

Brain fail...

Ah cool my next question was what eyepieces are you using

and I know all about crying newborns

Camelopardalis (Dunk) · #14 10-03-2014, 09:26 PM

What's not to love about classic 60/70s Japanese optics?

cometcatcher (Kevin) · #15 10-03-2014, 09:44 PM

The EQ mount that comes with the scope is problematic for a lot of beginners and field users.

A few years ago the local education department bought a few of these scopes and rented them to schools. The EQ mounts were rarely setup properly, were fiddly and parts used to go missing in the grass fields. I made a couple of dob mounts for the tubes to sit in and these seemed to be easier for teachers and students alike. Like you say the OTA's do seem to hold collimation but that EQ mount can be a pain.

Having said that I bought a motor drive for that EQ mount and used it for piggyback astrophotography for years. Properly setup, the EQ with motor drive can hold an object in the field of view for hours. It still doesn't "hand slew" from one object to another as well as a dob though.

The Mekon (John Briggs) · #16 10-03-2014, 09:52 PM

Dear Clockdrive, my apologies for kicking off the negative comments, but my opinion is unchanged. I have been in astronomy circles for nearly 50 years, these scopes were around when I was a lad and I have never been impressed with them. many a time I have been asked to around to a house to show how to operate one of these. I take a 60mm refractor on these occasions with me, and generally the owners are disappointed that my little 60mm (vixen achromat) has better views.
I'm happy that you are pleased with the views in your scope, and your enthusiasm for observing with a small instrument and pushing its limits is a joy I am well familiar with.
Keep up that enthusiasm, and thank you for your posts.

regards
John

Clockdrive · #17 10-03-2014, 10:16 PM

Thanks all for the more detailed responses, I can now clearly see where each of you is coming from. To put the cat among the pigeons though, it has to be said that I am a complete newby to astronomy and had no significant issues getting used to this scope.

The comments didn't upset me, it just annoyed me that someone could read the comments and think that the scope was a piece of junk. If it's what you have at hand, use it until you feel you want/need something better. Thanks to this model scope I know I want to get into astronomy more, and it only cost me $50 to find this out. In Canberra it costs that much for my wife and I to go to the movies, and that's without snacks! When I get my 12" dob I'll pass this on to one of my students at school and let them enjoy it.

I have been in optical hobbies (cameras, microscopes, binoculars) for many years so the optics side of astronomy is no issue for me. However, this whole 'finding things in the sky' thing is all new. If I there had of been a dob close-by I would have bought it, but instead I got this model of scope for $50 and have not looked back.

Perhaps in some ways I'm spoiled by being a teacher as with most kids you can point them at something and say, "Go play with it, I'm here if you need to ask questions" ...and they will amaze you by figuring out the most complex things in ways you never would have thought of! I in fact did just this with this model scope. They ended up unclamping both the alt and azi guides and effectively used it as a dob. Fair enough, I use it the same way but then clamp it back up and use the fine controls for tracking.

As for set-up, I never bother. I plonk the thing on the ground, make sure the tripod is firmly set and rock 'n' roll. I'm aware that using both controls to track something defeats the purpose of an equatorial mount, but I don't care, I just use it and have fun. Plus, with a newborn, 'setup' means sneaking the bloody thing quietly out the back door without banging anything loudly enough to wake the baby.

The list of things looked at that I posted below are all things I can find consistently from memory after only a few weeks with this little gem, what's so hard? I'm not gifted, in fact I'm probably a bit slow by most people's standards - and I still don't see what the big deal is.

As for wobble, with this model I get about 2-3 seconds of wobble after refocusing between EPs, even less when using the fine controls to re-position something in the FOV. I don;t know, maybe on other scopes (manual not go-to) you can move the scope and maintain perfect wobble-free status. It doesn't bother me though as I quickly adopted the 'let it drift through your FOV then re-position it' viewing method. My students also worked this out after about 5 minutes.

EPs? Currently the dodgy ones that were original to the scope (even got the original manuals, posters and solar and lunar filters etc - neato). BUT, when at my mates house I use his extensive collection. I must admit to being partial the both the Pentax and TeleVue EPs, no surprise there though I guess. I have some secondhand TeleVue plossls coming (32mm and 20mm - they were really cheap so I just couldn't pass them up) and a 2.5x Powermate. I've used all of these already in this scope and they work great.

Aperture, ah that old egg. I can completely understand where you are coming from, but to be honest I have to respectively disagree. 1:7.9 shows me a lot. I go looking for something and if I can't find it I write that in my observation diary and move on to the next item on my list/star-chart. I've learnt a lot about my 'seeing' in the last few weeks precisely because I've had to work for some things. I've also learnt the value of a good EP, the value of averted vision, the value of good seeing conditions, the value of REALLY getting my night vision and the value of hanging a bit of cardboard in a tree to block that awful bloody streetlight.

I'm convinced that if I had a bigger/better/faster scope some of this would have taken a lot longer to learn.

Am I wrong to believe people are capable of independent thought? Of perseverance? Of Googling the bits that make up a scope and what can go wrong with them? I researched that very topic for 20 minutes before I went to look at this model scope. Maybe years of farkling predisposes me to quickly figuring out mechanical devices, I don't know. I do know that when I was younger if I was unsure I took an older/more knowledgeable mate and learnt from them as I went along.

$85 may be a lot for some people. But then again, if someone wants to get into any hobby that involves optics...well...they are KIND OF asking for it, are they not???

Ok, baby finally asleep (been bouncing her with my foot as I type, apologies for the rant), have to go and get some real work done now for tomorrow!

Clear skies all, no hard feelings - just a bunch of crotchety old codgers wishing they could all be spacemen eh?

I know I am!

Clockdrive · #18 10-03-2014, 10:26 PM

Dammit, stop replying, I have work to do!

@John...I have had a few cheap refractors given to me for the club, and the students do like them. As do I, but getting one for free or for $50 that can show me the views that this little scope can is nigh on impossible.

Dobs? Yeah, I'd love to have a slew of 6" or 8" dobs to use with my students, hell I'd love one myself. But what I got's I got's (to quote Popeye).

No argument that EQ mounts are harder to set up and use, that's if you bother though. Sacrilegious? Maybe, but I' am a heathen - no denying it. That and if my students are having fun and finding things I'm not going to stop them to say they're doing it wrong. If one asks, sure I'll show them, but otherwise let them learn by discovery; a passion for learning is worth more than any instruction manual ever written.

**Except the one that tells you how to swaddle a baby, that I needed to read..apparently granny-knots are NOT cool...pfft.

brian nordstrom (As avatar) · #19 11-03-2014, 09:47 AM

Here here Clockdrive , not all of us can afford a 20 inch dob or 5-6 inch AP refractor when starting out and 85 is a lot for a scope that might only be used a few times.
I can vouch for these scopes as well as I found one at cashies a few years ago for 40 dollars with the help of a young man fixed it up, he is now a very active Observer , more than happy with it.
We all have to start somewhere.
Keep the enthusiasm going .

ps.scope snobbery is my pet hate as well.

Brian.

Shano592 (Shane) · #20 11-03-2014, 10:13 AM

Clockdrive, I noticed that you said there was a solar filter?

If it is the one that attaches to the eyepiece, then please destroy it ASAP.

They are well known for exploding or melting and allowing a focused, highly concentrated dose of light into the eye.

No good comes from them.

If it is a solar filter that covers the front of the scope, then your problems are much less!