You both have got a good point. It is probably moot to go much further with the 4". The 12 is here and I need a clear night around full moon to do the pointing run and get the the bugs out of the system (ie collimation and using the STL11K) before I get that rocking. I had planned on doing NGC2035 as the first image with the 12" (I know I was going to do NGC253 but those knots in the LMC were far too attractive). Mind you the Helix will still be there next year. Maybe it is time to start with the big scope.