Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigS
Brian, there are no 'proofs' of any theories in Science
never has been, never will be..
If time is absent, then the terms 'cause' and 'effect' would seem to be meaningless
'effect' could precede 'cause', 'cause' might precede 'effect', the two might be co-incident, the two might not even be correlated as relationships involve connectedness and hence direction, etc, etc
If you remove time, you remove the observer as it was an illusion in the mind of the observer
Seems to me you have also implied a starting condition as well
which again, re-establishes time, and an observer
in this case, yourself.
Its interesting that our brains are geared to our perception of the passing of time. Even our language contains the essence of time. The terms you're using above "cause" effect", "results" etc all imply a direction of time, to me.
It also seems to me that the best we can do, is observe things flowing from past, (or present), to the future and, maybe rewind events from the future to the past in our models. As soon as you delete time from any of this, even our language breaks down and becomes meaningless.
Perhaps this is what existed when there was nothing
meaninglessness ..?
This conversation has completely departed the realms of science. At best, plausible logic could develop something from it, but it would not be science
pure philosophy at best
better off in the hands of metaphysics.
Cheers
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That is why science needs a complete overhaul, especially its methodology. It is running into concepts and realities which it cannot deal with at present. But, unless it can learn to deal with and even work within them, it will only get so far and no further. There aren't too many scientists these days who can work with this and that is why nothing much is being done.