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Old 01-05-2010, 09:26 AM
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mjc (Mark)
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Its a very good question.

However, if mathematics was the language of the universe - and if we knew the mathematics completely - and measure the universe precisely - then we have pre-determinism - which is related to the thread title.

I don't think we can either know the mathematics well enough or measure physical phenomenon with sufficient precision to conclude that we have a deterministic universe - and deterministic actions of indivdiuals (compare with free will from thread title).

Even if it were theoretically true (should such a conclusion ever be reached) you'd need a computational machine at least the size of the universe to model the universe in real time - and that isn't practical. A small computer can simulate a mainframe - but not in real time.

Then there's Godel's Incompleteness Theorem - for any formal language language of sufficient complexity - it will either be incomplete or inconsistent - I'm not sure the universe reflects that.

Then there's quantum mechanics - where we can't know the precise nature of events on small scales (maybe thats the answer to my first query).

I believe that mathematics is a great modelling tool - but it isn't the real thing. However, I believe that mathematics exists as something independent from the physical universe (I know that sounds weird - but an implication is an implication and they are "discovered" not "defined").

Further, I Believe that the existance of mathematical truths are of great philosophical imortance. Cohen and Nagel "An Introduction to logic" - original publication 1934 had a great swing on logic - and if I recall correctly an implication exists regardless of whether man [or machine] thinks about it but an inference is temporal and requires a "psychology" [some processing must be done].

Bullet point: maths exists - universe exists - but they could be two dfferent (though closely allied) worlds.


Mark
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