Quote:
Originally Posted by SMR
Hi Carl
In my experience, most tools are much better than the fools using them ... 
To me, Rob seemed to be saying that these cosmology guys playing with computers in Granada were fools who had no idea about complex ideas like GIGO. Do you agree?
Which is exactly the thing that Rob was complaining about -- using computers to represent/simulate theoretical models is dangerous. You're saying they're "great". So how come you guys are agreeing?? You should be at each other's throats!!
BTW, my guess is that you haven't written any code either, right?
Steve. |
True...a tool can't do anything until it's used. if the person using the tool isn't up to scratch, so to speak, then the tool being used is either misused or not used to its full potential.
Nothing complex about GIGO...you get out of something only that which you put in. If what you put in is incomplete, then what you get out is likewise. If it's erroneous, then you generate errors. What Rob was saying is that they don't know enough about the subject they were modeling (dark matter) to get out of the simulations anything which would be really meaningful, since their initial input was incomplete in nature and possibly erroneous to begin with. All they would get would be a model that would only confirm what they already knew, or thought they knew. A model, by the way, which rests on not very much empirical evidence at all, other than an observed gravitational effect they don't fully understand in the first place.
It can be "dangerous" if they're applied to critical situations where life and limb are at stake and the models turn out to be wrong to begin with. How often has that happened in industry and engineering situations. Quite often, unfortunately.
As for not writing any code...sorry to disappoint you there. I've written code in basic, fortran, pascal and C, plus used SQL as well. I know how complex it can get and that mistakes are all too common, no matter how careful you try to be. But that doesn't make any theory you may use the simulations/programs to visualise any more correct or complete than beforehand, or after. The simulations don't do anything more than act as a way to see what you theorised about. They're great for creating visualisations of what you're trying to express in theory, but that's about it. For example, an N-body simulation will build you a solar system no problems, but it doesn't build you a replica of what you're looking at. That requires variables most of which you cannot predict from 1st principles. They have to come via observation and experience...each solar system has unique properties which are due to factors specific to their formation, not repeatable elsewhere. Models, by their nature, are generalisations which should be used only as guides to further study, not as a means to an end in themselves.