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All rules have exceptions however I feel the scopes you are considering are really a waste of money..they are the lastest versions of what many in the game refer to as "departement store scopes" good if you want to turn the kids off ever looking thru a scope again.
Persoanlly I would not bother with less than a 6 inch reflector but an 8 inch (still excellent value these days) would be somewhat perfect.
I had a 4 inch which was great and in a dark area it gets you to many objects...
I have "small" binos but they are not the same as the 80mm and lens diameter needs to be looked at different that a subtraction of one size from another... it is about lens area and light gathering ability.
I use a ruff approach to give me a guide... double the radius and multiple by 3 (a ruff application of the radius times 22 divied by 7 thing)
So I get a 27 for a 6inch and a 48 for an 8 inch to give me a ruff relationship of light gathing ability... so the difference between a 6 inch and a 8 inch is not simply 2 inches.... the 8 inch is near double ..this is ruff but I hope you get the drift.
Look at 6 inch dobs and frankly if that is too much just wait until you have the extra cash ...dont think that a "department store scope" can be a stepping stone or if you do see it that way remember that stone is covered in slippery moss inviting a fall.
alex
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