If i can't learn with all this info there is something more seriously wrong than I first thought! ( It' s all in the mind you know) Many thanks for all the advice and guidance, and words of experience.
When I get a clear night I will try the ideas. I think I'm trying to go too fast.Have had 7 Yes 7 sequential cloudy nights and the New Newt/dob is yet to see the light!
Cheers
Peter