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Thanks all
The 2 faint trapizeum stars are there but have been swamped by the brighter ones.
Yes its definately easier hand guiding by using the q guider to put a guidestar on the monitor rather then looking directly. The off axis guider shows them to be very comatic, long slivers not points and blowing it up big on the monitor makes guiding easier. An autoguider may not work anyway as guider software has trouble making out the "centroid" of such comatic stars.On Guidemaster for example the crosshairs wander round a bit, but the "human guider, me, guides off one end of the comatic star, keeping it stationary next to the cursor
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