[tbentley]

Originally Posted by Night Owl

Hmm, let me get this straight... A salesman can find the highest price a customer is willing to pay, but if a customer does the same to a salesman he's a penny pinching scrooge and deserves what he gets! How do you spell hypocrisy! Oh man, some guys just can't help hanging themselves!

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying the Night Owl, I never said that a customer shouldn't negotiate. Any consumer that doesn't try to negotiate is a fool and will, at some stage or another, find themselves taken advantage of by an unscrupulous dealer.

Originally Posted by Night Owl

And its even better, apparently if you ask for advice about something they want to sell you are then under some non existant fantasy obligation to then pay what they want for it!

I never said that you should pay what they want. I said that "Once the price differential exceeds your obligation you are free to shop elsewhere, it shows that the seller doesn't know his customer even though he may know his product." This obligation that I speak of is borne out of your core values, kind of like cutting a mate some slack when he's being a prick 'cause he helped you move house the other week. It's as much about making concessions relative to how much you feel they have helped you out. No help = no obligation.

Originally Posted by Night Owl

How dare a customer expect 'free' information about a product or its suitablity!

Now I specifically stated "asking for advice, this is distinct from asking for specifications or details". What you are referring to clearly comes in the latter category. A customer has a right to know exactly what they are buying without exception. You have (deliberately or otherwise) mis-interpreted what I said.

Originally Posted by Night Owl

Oh, I forgot that retail customers are the cash cows of the retailers, and must be milked for all they are worth. And heaven forbid if a cash cow ever breaks free of being milked, and goes to another dairy. It might start a stampeed.

Again you are misinterpreting me. I said "highest price that the customer is happy to pay", note the word happy. No-one is talking about milking anyone for all they are worth, that would not make anyone happy. The kind of behaviour you are talking about is very uncommon in my opinion and generally doesn't last long because, as you say, all the cows go to another dairy (or just don't give milk) and the business goes broke or changes its ways.

Originally Posted by Night Owl

And I thought talking about mowing the lawn was a pretty poor alternative to actually mowing it. But some people expect to be paid for talking about mowing the lawn! Man that's rich!

Facetious little bugger aren't you! (Trying to be humorous, no insult intended.) Who deserves to be paid better, the bloke who shows up twice a month and just mows your lawn, regardless of the fact it is slowly dying, or the guy that will mow your lawn and tell you it needs fertilising, weeding and your retic is malfunctioning? Do you truly believe that the guy doing the most work should only be remunerated as well as the guy doing the least? should everyone be treated equally even though they do not behave equally? Wars have been fought on that subject, my friend, and most of the communist regimes are either dead or changing.

Originally Posted by Night Owl

I'm not a very good cash cow, and I'm proud of it. And I've got the saving to prove it.

And I'm glad you do. As I stated in my prior post "If they can save a significant amount then that's fine, it means I don't really know my market, but not for a few bucks." I'm sure you research very well by yourself before deciding on a product and don't need the extra advice some retailers offer, therefore you are right in not wanting to pay it. I'm equally sure you wouldn't forgo rewarding any assistance to save $5 on a $5k purchase, you don't strike me as being that obnoxious.
I personally am quite happy that everyone else is not as self-sufficient as you because I do need the help (although IIS is often the best source) and am willing to pay for it. If I and others don't then these places will close, competition dies and we all have less choice and will end up paying more.
I'm sure we actually see things very similarly, just that we have different experiences. If you don't reward excellence all you end up with is mediocrity.

Travis

PS - I don't work in retail (but have briefly before) so my knowledge comes mostly from industrial type sales, often $200k+. The principles still apply the same, just that the stakes are higher.