Thansk for all the info ICE, it is greatly appreciated and yes, I am going along to Ron's evening. As for going straight for the 12", well, as my signature says, "I don't know the question but the answer is horsepower." The ETX is a valuable member of a growing fleet I hope to own but I need Deep Sky and it just doesnt collect enough light, the price difference between 10" and 12" seems very little and neither of them are pocket sized so you may as well go for the 12"...............now will wifey question the 20" hmmmmmmmmmmm yep.